Re: Love Never Dies - all views allowed

Paula74 Fri Oct 09, 2009 8:31 pm

Raphael wrote:
operafantomet wrote:
An epic movie released in November 1992. The tagline used in promo stuff: "Love Never Dies". Whaddayaknow.
I have a soft spot for that movie. One of my film instructors was an editor on it, it's got Hopkins and Oldman, and was my first exposure to Monica Bellucci.

One of my best friends love, loves, loves that movie. He took me to see it on his fifth or sixth viewing, but I'd just gotten off work and was on the verge of a bad flu...I dozed on his shoulder the entire time. Neutral

He, on the other hand, made a very spiffy Dracula the following Halloween.

Ramin's song is pretty enough in a generic sort of way, but it doesn't sound like something the Phantom would sing. Emo Gerik maybe, but not the original ALW Phantom.

.

It's rather more in keeping with the totally unnecessary "No One Would Listen" added to the movie than with MOTN or anything else sung by the original ALW Phantom. Maybe that's why, over in the Gerard Butler fandom, there are folks complaining that Ramin won't be able to fill Butler's shoes and lacks the requisite "sweetness" for the role. Rolling Eyes

Currently sifting through fonts for an assignment myself, I think the logotype for LND is appropriate. This isn't the Phantom of the Opera anymore, it's Coney Island in the 1900s and the font evokes a carnival atmosphere.

I actually don't have any real quibbles with the font, either. I don't care for the ghastly doll face, but that's mainly because I'm not crazy about the LND Phantom's automaton fetish itself. The font might not suit the Paris Phantom storu, but it's certainly OK for Coney Island in the early 20th-century. Actually, it makes me think of a darker version of Ragtime.

EarlFan Fri Oct 09, 2009 8:38 pm

Amy wrote:
My dad just walks in with the newspaper in hand and goes "Andrew Lloyd Webber is writing a new musical? A stand alone with....with that Phantom guy?!"

hahaha Made me laugh.

Haha,

Paula74 Fri Oct 09, 2009 8:55 pm

EarlFan wrote:
Amy wrote:
My dad just walks in with the newspaper in hand and goes "Andrew Lloyd Webber is writing a new musical? A stand alone with....with that Phantom guy?!"

hahaha Made me laugh.

Haha,

Sounds familiar. Earlier this year, I was at the library with my partner-in-crime, James. He'd gone upstairs to read the newspaper while I ended up talking to an older cousin of mine (who totally gets my love of musical and such...something James still doesn't quite understand). Well, James comes downstairs looking very self-important...like he had some major news to share.

"Hey, Paula...guess what I just read...bet you didn't know they're making a sequel to The Phantom of The Opera."

My cousin was trying so hard not to laugh.

operafantomet Fri Oct 09, 2009 9:16 pm

Raphael wrote:Currently sifting through fonts for an assignment myself, I think the logotype for LND is appropriate. This isn't the Phantom of the Opera anymore, it's Coney Island in the 1900s and the font evokes a carnival atmosphere.

R.

I agree, the font is very good, very poster-like as it would be in the early 20.th century.

And as for Bram Stoker's Dracula: I'm a major fan. Fantastic casting, rich story telling, and drop-dead-gorgeous costume. And also one of those sticking closest to the novel, although some liberties has been taken (and a much stronger focus on love has been added). When I watched it some months ago, I noticed that it now looks aged, but it's still cool how they did many of those tricks. And Gary Oldman = affraid

(in a positive way). So cool that you know one of the editors!

Helen Fri Oct 09, 2009 11:20 pm

EarlFan wrote:
I had hoped that we should get to hear more about the cast at the press launch. So far we've only got the Phantom, Christine and Meg. Anyone heard any more news or rumours about this?

I have heard that there's open auditions for the role of Christine's son. I guess there will have to be several boys cast, like they have for the child roles in other shows. The casting of Raoul and Madame Giry haven't been announced yet, but I'm looking forward to finding out who they are. I like Madame Giry and Raoul. Is it known whether the father of the child is Raoul or the Phantom? I don't like the idea of it being the Phantom.

My curiosity is likely to get the better of me about the sequel. Does anyone know what the view from the upper circle is like in the Adelphi theatre? I don't want to pay for the very expensive seats in the stalls or dress circle, as I'm not sure whether I'll enjoy the show.

The show's logo is really freaking me out!

HDKingsbury Fri Oct 09, 2009 11:22 pm

This was posted over on poto.com, originally from ABC News Australia:
http://www.abc.net.au/am/content/2009/s2709153.htm

TONY EASTLEY: There's certainly nothing new about movie sequels, we've become accustomed to them over the years, but musicals?

One of the world's most successful composers of musicals, Andrew Lloyd Webber, is doing just that with his classic Phantom of the Opera, which has been seen by 100 million people in theatres right around the world since 1986. Phantom's sequel is going to be called Love Never Dies.

Europe correspondent Philip Williams caught up with the now Lord Lloyd Webber in London.

(Sound of song from Love Never Dies)

PHILIP WILLIAMS: You've written the most successful production ever staged, ever, anywhere in the world, 100 million people have seen it. Why risk that artistically on an extension of that story?

ANDREW LLOYD WEBBER: Well, it's a fantastic story that I've been given and I wouldn't have embarked on this unless I thought that this is a completely standalone piece. You don't need to have seen the original phantom to enjoy this.

PHILIP WILLIAMS: And yet it's a follow on and you set it in the United States in Coney Island. Why there?

ANDREW LLOYD WEBBER: Coney Island was a wonderful place in its day. Of course it's gone now. And I feel it's the exact place for the phantom. I mean, it was full of freaks and oddities and strange people. He would have gone there and he could have just fitted into the background and nobody would have thought twice.

(Sound of song from Love Never Dies)

PHILIP WILLIAMS: Where do you take it from here? Is there a phantom three beyond this?

ANDREW LLOYD WEBBER: I hope not. Well, actually when you hear or see this one I think you probably realise that, you would realise that the story can't really go any further.

PHILIP WILLIAMS: The last 20 minutes I believe are difficult for you, why?

ANDREW LLOYD WEBBER: Well I'm not going to say because if I do I'll give the story away, but it's got a lot of emotion in it. From my point of view it was the most difficult piece to write, yet it, yet it flowed once I had the story pretty quickly.

PHILIP WILLIAMS: Emotion for you personally?

ANDREW LLOYD WEBBER: Yeah.

PHILIP WILLIAMS: Still now?

ANDREW LLOYD WEBBER: When you see it, it's the most charged piece I've written. It's much more musically charged than the old one.

(Sound of song from Love Never Dies)

PHILIP WILLIAMS: Australia, when will we see it there?

ANDREW LLOYD WEBBER: I think the plan is ASAP really. Early 2011. It could be earlier it just depends.

PHILIP WILLIAMS: Why don't you write a dud one, a complete failure just so we realise that you are actually human?

ANDREW LLOYD WEBBER: Oh I've written one or two that haven't worked, The Woman in White didn't exactly set the world alight, and that was an interesting thing again. It comes back to your question - the reason it didn't really work was because the story didn't work theatrically.

What I am absolutely sure of is that whatever happens with the production of Love Never Dies, it's a very, very strong, very theatre based tale.

TONY EASTLEY: Andrew Lloyd Webber ending Philip Williams report from London.

phantomgirl110 Sat Oct 10, 2009 12:40 am

HDKingsbury wrote:PHILIP WILLIAMS: Where do you take it from here? Is there a phantom three beyond this?

ANDREW LLOYD WEBBER: I hope not. Well, actually when you hear or see this one I think you probably realise that, you would realise that the story can't really go any further.

And see, that's what I always thought about the first one. Rolling Eyes

HDKingsbury Sat Oct 10, 2009 12:42 am

Yeah. Leave sequels to those of us who like to write fan fiction. At least that way, we know it's just our own fantasies and not somebody trying to tell us that this is the real, official version. Razz

Amberly_Nichole Sat Oct 10, 2009 1:17 am

I have an interesting question for anyone who is willing to answer... Do you think that perhaps ALW is going to "kill" one of the characters in "Love Never Dies?" I could be completely off base here, but the interview above makes me wonder, especially when he says that the last twenty minutes were difficult to write, that the story can't really continue after this, etc.... So, I'm just wondering if anyone thinks he's going to "kill" a character, particularly the Phantom or Christine. Anyone have any input? I'm really curious!

phantomgirl110 Sat Oct 10, 2009 1:32 am

Amberly_Nichole wrote:I have an interesting question for anyone who is willing to answer... Do you think that perhaps ALW is going to "kill" one of the characters in "Love Never Dies?" I could be completely off base here, but the interview above makes me wonder, especially when he says that the last twenty minutes were difficult to write, that the story can't really continue after this, etc.... So, I'm just wondering if anyone thinks he's going to "kill" a character, particularly the Phantom or Christine. Anyone have any input? I'm really curious!

Comparing the interview above and what Anea told me about the end of POM a couple of pages ago, I think it sounds rather likely.

HDKingsbury Sat Oct 10, 2009 1:38 am

Having read Phantom of Manhattan, which this stand alone/sequel is/is not based upon (even though there are clowns, Coney Island, Erik luring Christine, her husband and her son to NYC, etc., etc.), and then reading that interview, I have a strong feeling that yes, one of the main characters dies. If it follows PoM, that character will be...*zips lips*

I'll shut up. I don't want unduly influence anyone...or spoil the surprise. clown

Amyable_Nature Sat Oct 10, 2009 4:18 am

HDKingsbury wrote:
I'll shut up. I don't want unduly influence anyone...or spoil the surprise.

Yeah, the big fat stinking surprise. ALW seems to want to distance his sequel from Phantom of Manhattan, but from what I hear and guess, it looks like he's keeping the major plot points. I won't spoil them, but I hated them. I suppose he cut out Father Joe and Darius and the god of gold plot, but other than that...what else has a changed? Doesn't sound like much else is different. Oh, except that Raoul is a drunk. That's something I will never forgive Webber for. I cringe at the thought. Mad

At the end of the day, ALW has written his own musical fanfiction.

operafantomet Sat Oct 10, 2009 6:39 am

Helen wrote:Is it known whether the father of the child is Raoul or the Phantom? I don't like the idea of it being the Phantom.

If going by PoM, it's the Phantom.

phantomgirl110 Sat Oct 10, 2009 7:38 am

Which means that not only is this sequel contradicting the Phantom's actions in the Final Lair, it's also contradicting the very lyrics of the show. "That fate which condemns me to wallow in blood has also denied me the joys of the flesh...except for this one time with Christine, but that totally doesn't count..."

phantom10906 Sat Oct 10, 2009 7:44 am

phantomgirl110 wrote:except for this one time with Christine, but that totally doesn't count..."

Apparently not. Evil or Very Mad

Phantomlove Sat Oct 10, 2009 7:48 am

Maybe things will be a lot easier if we just accept that this ~~fan fiction~~ musical by Andrew Lloyd Webber is set in an alternate universe where nothing have to make sense?

Btw: I disagree with ALW that it would be logical for the Phantom to go to America and set up business in Coney Island. I mean, he could go to America of course, but it is far from the absolute logical choice for him. There is nothing in the story that says that he is at all interested in the new world.

HerMajesty Sat Oct 10, 2009 8:28 am

Miss von Krolock wrote:Re Sierra
MasqPhan wrote:(I get the idea that she was taking the place of the automaton for the press conference though).
That's exactly what I thought as well! I mean, she's like just sitting there... We'll see

Sierra Boggess is excellent with an utterly stunning voice to boot. Her Vegas Christine was excellent as was her voice in TLM, I have no doubts she will put most of the London Christine's to absolute shame, although it's a pity she is not doing a turn at HMT instead of LND.

And guys, give Linds a break, she's passionate about Phantom, fair enough everyone is entitled to an opinion and she got a bit upset but this thread is bashing and she certainly doesn't deserve that!

Yes, the sequel's a bad idea, but it's happening and I bet every single one of you end up with the CD at least! It's only like watching/listening to a dodgy movie version!

(I think it's so funny how ALW is taking all the credit for FF's dodgy fanphic, wonder how much he got paid off to let him take the credit?)

PhantomJT Sat Oct 10, 2009 12:27 pm

I thought I'd share an article from Toronto's Globe and Mail Newspaper...I really like the part about the Pop Tart...

Globe & Mail LND Article

Picture a Canadian masked misfit roaming Coney Island
Elizabeth Renzetti
At least a hundred people are milling around outside Her Majesty's Theatre in London's West End, peering through the doors. A few try to cajole their way past the sentries armed with clipboard shields. Inside, the theatre is full, and backstage one young Canadian convinces himself that he's not nervous, not at all.

So why would all these people fight their way into crowded, downtown London when they almost certainly have jobs and children that need attention, or at least toenails that need clipping? As the lights dim in the theatre and a screen descends, the answer appears: Our business here relates to “the most successful single piece of entertainment of all time.”

What, bigger than Gone With the Wind ? More orc-tacular than The Lord of the Rings ? The statistics continue to roll on screen .... More than 40 million albums sold. A stage run of 15 years in Germany, 16 years in Japan (it's nice that a taste for musical theatre brought these old allies together rather than, say, a renewed interest in world domination). In the pit, the orchestra is playing a maddeningly familiar tune.

A handsome young man walks out on stage, carrying something small and white in his hand, which looks, from a distance, like an evening purse – but it is in fact a small white mask, of the sort that would cover a terrible facial deformity, if you happened to be a crazed, lovesick, artfully deformed composer trapped in the Paris Opera. This is the launch of Andrew Lloyd Webber's Love Never Dies , the sequel (as the screen is now reminding us) to the most successful musical ever, The Phantom of the Opera .

On stage, the young man walks through a bank of dry ice and begins to sing a soaring ballad, the strings swelling around him:

“ 10 long years living a fade of life

In my mind I hear melodies pure and unearthly

But I can't give them a voice

Without you, my Christine!

My Christine! Lost and gone! Lost and gone!”

Now, either you're weeping at this point, or you've put the paper down and gone to get yourself a Pop Tart. If you're a weeper, you're probably a woman, one of the legions who loved Phantom of the Opera from the moment it opened in 1986; you own one of those 40 million albums; and you are already planning to buy tickets to Love Never Dies when it debuts in London in March, 2010, and New York the following November.

The young man has reached the eye-popping crescendo of his big number, Till I Hear You Sing , and while he's not greeted with a crashing chandelier, he does get some thunderous applause. It's a big voice and it belongs to Ramin Karimloo, 31, who grew up in Peterborough and Richmond Hill, Ont. Karimloo, who has no formal musical training and learned his chops singing on cruise ships and in a Tragically Hip cover band, has landed the biggest plum in musical theatre: He was hand-picked by Lloyd Webber to star as the Phantom in Love Never Dies . He's already playing the title role in Phantom of the Opera in London, but to go on to win the sequel – to coin a phrase from Spinal Tap , that's one louder.

After the performances, Karimloo says, “It's been a pretty phenomenal trip so far.” His deep well of politeness extends to addressing women as “ma'am.” Iran may be the country of his birth, but he's Canadian through and through; his dream is to one day have a beer and watch a hockey game with the Hip's Gord Downie. He lives in London with his wife and two sons, but pines for home, and he may soon get a chance to visit: His high school in Richmond Hill wants him to return to teach a drama class. He smiles, a bit sheepishly: “I'd love to go, but I'm not actually sure I graduated.”

Love Never Dies is set 10 years after Phantom , and the action has moved to Coney Island, where our murderous hero is just one freak among many. He is yearning for his love, Christine, last seen with that drip Raoul. And perhaps there's something more to the masked misfit: Karimloo writes a little back story for every character he plays, and he's decided that the Phantom has Asperger's syndrome, which explains both his social awkwardness and his genius. “I needed a way to understand the Phantom,” Karimloo says. “And that worked – it explained his gestures, his coldness, his brilliance.”

He's still having trouble believing that Lloyd Webber chose him for the role. One day, before he went on stage as the Phantom, he was called in to the composer's office and asked to audition for the sequel; since he doesn't read music, he had someone play it for him, then sang as if – well, as if he were singing for the boss. And the boss, who usually depends on a TV show to find his stars these days, hired him on the spot.

At this week's launch, Lloyd Webber said that he'd been working on the sequel for almost 20 years, because he'd always been unhappy with the original musical's ending. No, there would be no tunes carried over from Phantom ; yes, some characters, such as Christine and Raoul, would return. Why set it in Coney Island? “It was the Las Vegas of the time,” Lloyd Webber said, adding that Sigmund Freud thought that Coney Island “was the only reason to visit America.” What is the budget for Love Never Dies ? “I have no idea,” he said, with Marie Antoinette-ish flair.

Lloyd Webber claims not to be daunted by the prospect of a sequel – which are notoriously difficult in musical theatre – but he was given pause on the morning of the launch when he overheard two stagehands backstage at the theatre: “He's got to be mad, trying to top Phantom ,” one said, and the other agreed. “What's he going to call it? Ugly Bastard II?”

Amyable_Nature Sat Oct 10, 2009 2:56 pm

Is it me (keep in mind I'm sleep deprived) or did that article seem to snark on Phantom in general, not just the sequel.

HerMajesty wrote:
And guys, give Linds a break, she's passionate about Phantom, fair enough everyone is entitled to an opinion and she got a bit upset but this thread is bashing and she certainly doesn't deserve that!

Yes, the sequel's a bad idea, but it's happening and I bet every single one of you end up with the CD at least! It's only like watching/listening to a dodgy movie version!

I will buy the CD and I will see the show when it comes to New York. I am not by any means confident that I will be happy with it. I do not like anything E/C so a lot of things in the sequel don't sit right with me. So if I sound like I'm bashing it or hurting any one's feelings, let me know and I will apologize and tone it down. No hard feelings.

**Raphael** Sat Oct 10, 2009 3:46 pm

HerMajesty wrote:
And guys, give Linds a break, she's passionate about Phantom, fair enough everyone is entitled to an opinion and she got a bit upset but this thread is bashing and she certainly doesn't deserve that!

Yes, the sequel's a bad idea, but it's happening and I bet every single one of you end up with the CD at least! It's only like watching/listening to a dodgy movie version!

Well, we're all passionate about Phantom. Otherwise this thread wouldn't have doubled in size overnight and we wouldn't have all congregated here to get our Phantom fix due to POL's sporadic functionality the past several weeks. And because we are so passionate, we feel personal ownership of the property and any negativity directed towards it can feel like a personal slight against us. But keep in mind that there's no need to take it personally.

Opinions about LND can be as passionate as you like, but as long as everyone airs them with a little tact, no one should take personal offense if their opinion is different than someone else's. The opinions are about a product, not about the phans who support or disagree with said product.

And I'll take that bet because I know I'm not buying the CD. If I didn't spend $10 to go down the street to see the movie because I didn't agree with the direction it took, not spending $1,000 to fly across country to see the sequel is a no-brainer Laughing

I may have no control over what ALW does, but I do have control over what I do with my time and money.

R.

Phantomlove Sat Oct 10, 2009 3:59 pm

HerMajesty wrote:
And guys, give Linds a break, she's passionate about Phantom, fair enough everyone is entitled to an opinion and she got a bit upset but this thread is bashing and she certainly doesn't deserve that!

I don't think she has been bashed in the thread. She came in, threw a big tantrum, claimed that the people who did not look forward to the sequel were probably not fans and then left. Personally I think that kind of argumentation is quite tiring. Maybe it was frustrating that we all had already seen everything that the ones who were at the launch in person had seen and that we were already discussing it, but as far as I know we had access to the exact same information as Carlottawannabe and we discussed and are still discussing the ~~sequel~~ stand alone with this background information.

Paula74 Sat Oct 10, 2009 4:12 pm

Phantomlove wrote:
HerMajesty wrote:
And guys, give Linds a break, she's passionate about Phantom, fair enough everyone is entitled to an opinion and she got a bit upset but this thread is bashing and she certainly doesn't deserve that!

I don't think she has been bashed in the thread. She came in, threw a big tantrum, claimed that the people who did not look forward to the sequel were probably not fans and then left. Personally I think that kind of argumentation is quite tiring. Maybe it was frustrating that we all had already seen everything that the ones who were at the launch in person had seen and that we were already discussing it, but as far as I know we had access to the exact same information as Carlottawannabe and we discussed and are still discussing the ~~sequel~~ stand alone with this background information.

I think most of us were probably quite happy for her and for any other phans who were able to attend this event. Had it been in NYC, I certainly would've registered for a chance. And I'm sure a lot of us were probably looking forward to her coming back here with a firsthand account of the event. Even though most of us had already watched it by then, it's always great to hear (well, read) all the little details from someone who'd been there in person.

But, instead of getting an enthusiastic account from someone who'd been lucky enough to attend, we were lashed out at for making valid opinions based on the video of the exact same event.

I can understand being passionate about Phantom...even the sequel. It's not like people here are Phantom-haters in the first place. We're all here because we love POTO in general, even though we all have differing opinions on what's the best version, best song, best scene, who's the best Phantom/Christine/Raoul/Third Ballerina On The Right...

HerMajesty Sat Oct 10, 2009 4:29 pm

All I'm saying is name calling doesn't help, we're all adults and yes Linds got a bit upset but she's still my friend and I am a skeptic Very Happy

Phantomlove Sat Oct 10, 2009 5:00 pm

But where is the name calling? I don't get it.

HerMajesty Sat Oct 10, 2009 6:52 pm

I believe someone called her a spoilt child or something like that, I really can't be bother to find the exact words, anyway, that's all done with now anyway.

Phantomlove Sat Oct 10, 2009 7:24 pm

Well, that is true, I did see that. But it was more to point out that the behaviour was like that of a spoilt child, I think. For the most part I think she has been respectfully met in the thread, though of course with some sharp words here and there.

IamErik771 Sat Oct 10, 2009 10:44 pm

I saw the video as well, and like many of you, I wasn't too impressed. I like Ramin in the original, but here... Maybe it was the lack of disfigurement/costume/stage direction/etc., but his performance didn't grab me at all. The music was pleasant, but more Disney than Phantom to me, and the lyrics... oh lord, the lyrics. Rolling Eyes

People love to point to Don Black's work as an example of cheesy, uncreative lyric-writing, but I think Glenn Slater has him beat.

So yeah, I'll probably listen to the cast album and watch any other videos that pop up on YouTube, but I doubt anything could convince me to spend money on anything relating to this sequel.

Paula74 Sat Oct 10, 2009 10:58 pm

IamErik771 wrote:I saw the video as well, and like many of you, I wasn't too impressed. I like Ramin in the original, but here... Maybe it was the lack of disfigurement/costume/stage direction/etc., but his performance didn't grab me at all.

I considered that for a moment right after I saw the video. But then I thought of all the times I've heard MOTN, for example, performed in concert settings...no costume, no mask and make-up, none of the familiar scenery and blocking, no context within the story...and it's been every bit as good as it is within the show itself or, in some instances, even better.

I think, for me, it's this song itself that's lacking.

IamErik771 Sun Oct 11, 2009 12:34 am

Paula74 wrote:
IamErik771 wrote:I saw the video as well, and like many of you, I wasn't too impressed. I like Ramin in the original, but here... Maybe it was the lack of disfigurement/costume/stage direction/etc., but his performance didn't grab me at all.

I considered that for a moment right after I saw the video. But then I thought of all the times I've heard MOTN, for example, performed in concert settings...no costume, no mask and make-up, none of the familiar scenery and blocking, no context within the story...and it's been every bit as good as it is within the show itself or, in some instances, even better.

I think, for me, it's this song itself that's lacking.

True point... I've also seen MOTN and lots of other songs from musicals performed out-of-context, and many of them also hit the mark, or at least got my attention. So yeah, I suppose it must've just been the song.

ladyghost Mon Oct 12, 2009 9:25 am

Yay, I want to opine too! Embarassed

I'm againts the sequel.
I think the story is fine the way it ends.
But...I'm curious somehow!
And of course I'll try to see it in London.
I saw Ramin video and I loved it.
Of course I prefer Music of the Night! But the song was nice and Ramin did a wonderful role.
The only thing I don't like (the only? oh well...) is the logo.
Ladyghost.

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