Love Never Dies - all views allowed

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Re: Love Never Dies - all views allowed

Post  operafantomet on Wed Mar 10, 2010 3:06 pm

OK, seriously... whazzup with the cheezy puns in LND?

"The Aerie" (aria, eerie, up in the air)
"Mr. Y" ("mystery" if you'd like)

Seriously?

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Re: Love Never Dies - all views allowed

Post  phantomgirl110 on Wed Mar 10, 2010 3:27 pm

justin-from-barbados wrote:http://www.guardian.co.uk/stage/2010/mar/10/love-never-dies-review
Again with this delusion ALW has that those of us against the sequel are taking issue only with the staging and other such superficial details. The example he gives is an early performance of POTO in which the chandelier didn't work properly. I honestly can't tell at this point if he's pointedly ignoring our very legitimate criticisms or if he actually doesn't understand the things we're saying about the bastardization of the characters.

I find it amusing that he dismisses those of us against the sequel by acting as though we're just a tiny group of crazies. "It's only about five people writing, you know." Um, no. The Love Should Die group on Facebook has 813 members as I'm typing this, and I'm sure that a large number of the people who've written all the negative reviews on other websites have nothing to do with LSD. It's a lot more than five people.

As for the footage of the show...I tried to watch it as open a mind as possible, and I can honestly say that the only draw is Ramin's voice. There was nothing else about that video that stood out as special or interesting or would make me think "Ooh, I want to see that!" If I didn't know anything about the show, I'd probably watch that video and think "Well, he has a nice voice. The show looks kind of boring, though. Maybe if I have some extra time and money I'll see it in a few months."

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Re: Love Never Dies - all views allowed

Post  operafantomet on Wed Mar 10, 2010 3:42 pm

phantomgirl110 wrote:
justin-from-barbados wrote:http://www.guardian.co.uk/stage/2010/mar/10/love-never-dies-review
Again with this delusion ALW has that those of us against the sequel are taking issue only with the staging and other such superficial details. The example he gives is an early performance of POTO in which the chandelier didn't work properly.
Yeah, what does THAT have to do with anything? Oh, so there were some issues with the chandelier in a POTO preview, and there's been some issues with... the end scene, the opening, the technical aspects and the preview reviews for LND - that's the same thing. It's almost an identical situation, yeeeees... Rolling Eyes

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Re: Love Never Dies - all views allowed

Post  Cape Twirl of Doom on Wed Mar 10, 2010 3:44 pm

I find it interesting that while the British reviews have been middling to raves, the few American reviews I've read have been out and out pans. Brantley hated it, Theatremania hated it, etc. I wonder if that's because ALW is British and I think RUG has a hand in funding some of those papers? Also the writer for one of the 5 star reviews had written a biography on ALW.

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Re: Love Never Dies - all views allowed

Post  Madame Giry on Wed Mar 10, 2010 3:53 pm

*watches the video from The Guardian*

Every time I see that darn Gerik poofy shirt I want to punch a kitten. It's just so visually silly and cliche. I'll admit, if Ramin sang that song while wearing a normal tux dress shirt with a waistcoat (no tailcoat needed), I would be much more charitable about that scene (freaky love mannequin aside) because it's one of the songs I find decent in the show.

Still not really impressed. It doesn't give me that "Wow, I really want to see that!" feel that I get from other shows I like. A couple of the set pieces are interesting - is that the Belle Epoque version of Bill and Ted's Telephone Booth in the Phantom's Lair? Amusing how there's a bit where the Phantom is channelling that MotN-patented turn-Christine's-head-with-a-gesture stuff.

Re: Raoul's white suit. I'm haven't studied up my fashion in a while but I think it's still a legitimate look since gentlemen often had white linen suits for summertime resorts and vacations back around the turn of the century. An example can be seen in this John Singer Sargent painting, Mr. and Mrs. I.M. Phelps Stokes (1897): http://qag.qld.gov.au/__data/assets/image/0005/63257/varieties/Thumbnail_320.jpg

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Re: Love Never Dies - all views allowed

Post  operafantomet on Wed Mar 10, 2010 4:07 pm

Ben Brantley's review amused me to tears/pieces/whatever. Laughing But he's actually one of few not loving the score. Instead he comments:

"While lushly orchestrated (by David Cullen with Mr. Lloyd Webber), the score is, for the most part, so slow that you have time to anticipate Mr. Slater’s next leaden rhyme. Each of the songs — which range from bathing-beauty frolics to power-chord operetta ballads — spins a single tune until it loses its tread."

I admit I yet haven't listened to the whole LND CD yet, but by now I've heard five different songs, and Brantley described very well how I experienced them. There's a good start, a good tune, which gets lost in itself. Pretty, yes. Interesting, not really. The lack of personality, both for the score and the characters, is something I'm inclined to agree with. This show seems to want so much, without spending the time to establish a proper basis.

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Re: Love Never Dies - all views allowed

Post  Mandrake on Wed Mar 10, 2010 4:39 pm

Cape Twirl of Doom wrote:I find it interesting that while the British reviews have been middling to raves, the few American reviews I've read have been out and out pans. Brantley hated it, Theatremania hated it, etc. I wonder if that's because ALW is British and I think RUG has a hand in funding some of those papers? Also the writer for one of the 5 star reviews had written a biography on ALW.

I was also surprised by how good the UK papers' reviews were, or rather how bad they weren't. I think, in part, there's a definite effort not to appear snobbish by rubbishing it just because it's ALW and perhaps a little bit of overcompensation due to ALW's squealing about "phan" reactions. I'm also pretty sure ALW's influence in UK theatre plays a part.

I'm rather disappointed that the reviews are just mediocre. Not bad enough to pan it off the face of the earth and into closing, and not good enough to make me want to see it after all.

I think the show benefits from having pretty music, which also perhaps explains why the initial reviews are better than expected; but Phantom's longevity is due to brilliant music and great story, both of which LND apparently lacks.

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Re: Love Never Dies - all views allowed

Post  Helen on Wed Mar 10, 2010 4:40 pm

PhantomofPhoenix wrote:Hi! Im new here, but I have been checking it the board for a while now.

I'm just wondering if anyone has listen to the soundtrack all the way through yet, since it has offically been released, whd what are your thoughts about it?

I actually just bought and about mid way through it, and so far I'm conflicted weather or not I like it, I'm trying really hard to like it, but it's not working.

I listened to it all the way through yesterday. Some of it I liked, some of it I didn't. The lyricist certainly likes the word beautiful. I like "Til I Hear You Sing" and I think the title song will grow on me. "The Beauty Underneath," was good, but the kid shouting "yes!" at various intervals was a bit strange. I could only make it through about half of that "Bathing Beauty" song. I'll probably end up seeing the show at some point, simply out of curiosity.

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Re: Love Never Dies - all views allowed

Post  IamErik771 on Wed Mar 10, 2010 8:30 pm

PhantomofPhoenix wrote:Hi! Im new here, but I have been checking it the board for a while now.

I'm just wondering if anyone has listen to the soundtrack all the way through yet, since it has offically been released, whd what are your thoughts about it?

I actually just bought and about mid way through it, and so far I'm conflicted weather or not I like it, I'm trying really hard to like it, but it's not working.

Welcome to the forums! Very Happy

I listened to the album about a week ago. While there were some things I liked about it, the absurdity of the plot and oversimplistic lyrics ended up outweighing the few catchy songs for me. Also, I thought that the "recurring melodies" often used the wrong songs -- I would have preferred more recurrences of songs like "Beneath a Moonless Sky," and fewer of "Look With Your Heart" (urg) and "Beautiful" (ick). Amusingly, nowadays if I hear the word "beautiful" said or sung a certain way, I get a strong urge to hit something. In that, at least, ALW and Glenn Slater exceeded my expectations.

I was also amused by the fact that in their scenes together, the Phantom ended up sounding significantly younger than Raoul. In all, while not as terrible as I feared it would be, the album didn't measure up to ALW's other, greater works. Even if I wasn't opposed to the idea of a sequel to POTO, I doubt the music from this show would have grabbed me in nearly the way that the scores of many of my favorite shows did.

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Re: Love Never Dies - all views allowed

Post  Paula74 on Wed Mar 10, 2010 8:57 pm

At the moment, watching the sequel only makes you appreciate the achievement of the original.

From Variety's less-than-stellar review...

http://www.variety.com/review/VE1117942377.html?categoryid=33&cs=1

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Re: Love Never Dies - all views allowed

Post  SenorSwanky on Wed Mar 10, 2010 9:21 pm

justin-from-barbados wrote:http://www.guardian.co.uk/stage/2010/mar/10/love-never-dies-review

Michael Billington wrote:At his very best – as in Joseph, Jeeves, The Phantom of the Opera and Sunset Boulevard – Lloyd Webber's melodic inventiveness matches the material
That assails this critic's credibility right there. The inclusion of Jeeves (Jeeves?!) and the exclusion of Evita and JCS and, to some extent, Cats means his musical taste is lacking.

My question about the robot: do they make a unique mask for each Christine principal and understudy? The original Mirror Bride had a generic face, but no one seems to mind or notice.

phantomgirl110 wrote:I can honestly say that the only draw is Ramin's voice.
I can't even commend that. As I've said elsewhere, it belongs more in Rent than in Phantom, especially an ostensibly 60-year-old Phantom (though obviously they've sadly and stupidly scaled back how old the Phantom is supposed to be with more recent casting in the original and in this sequel).

The only thing I can really tell is excellent or even approaching the standards of the original, from what I've seen and heard, is the lighting.

Cape Twirl of Doom wrote:I find it interesting that while the British reviews have been middling to raves, the few American reviews I've read have been out and out pans. Brantley hated it, Theatremania hated it, etc. I wonder if that's because ALW is British and I think RUG has a hand in funding some of those papers? Also the writer for one of the 5 star reviews had written a biography on ALW.
There always was some negativity among American theatre figures toward ALW even during his heyday of the mid-70s through early 90s, but I doubt, in this more globalized world and theatre culture that that has much if any bearing on American critics' views toward his or any other non-American shows. That's especially true considering that the big British musical era has long since faded, even though Phantom still reigns around the world.

operafantomet wrote:There's a good start, a good tune, which gets lost in itself. Pretty, yes. Interesting, not really.
Yeah, I like the general melody of the title song (though not TIHYS), but there's something about it that doesn't transform from nice theme to great, moving song. ALW doesn't have that touch anymore, and Cullen probably can't do much with it like he did with the original show's score, which has amazing orchestrations. Slater's lyrics don't help at all (not that Don Black's original lyrics for The Heart is Slow to Learn were very good). Critics slashed Charles Hart and Richard Stilgoe, but I'm sure they'd yearn for something of that quality on this score, though surely they couldn't save it.

Variety's David Bendict wrote:" 'Til I Hear You Sing," the best number Lloyd Webber has written for a man since "The Music of the Night."
Not even close. That'd be Love Changes Everything, followed by the title song to Sunset Boulevard.

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Re: Love Never Dies - all views allowed

Post  LadyCDaae on Wed Mar 10, 2010 10:06 pm

Yeah, I like the general melody of the title song (though not TIHYS), but there's something about it that doesn't transform from nice theme to great, moving song.

From a structural standpoint, the song reminds me of WiW's "I Believe My Heart" in that it basically tries to create drama by repeating the same thing louder and higher (we'll call it "The Song That Goes Like This" Syndrome). Eventually you're like, "Okay, we get it, move on please."

Not even close. That'd be Love Changes Everything, followed by the title song to Sunset Boulevard.

I agree, although I might reverse the order (at least right now I find the bitter cynicism of SB's title tune more appealing).

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Re: Love Never Dies - all views allowed

Post  starryeyed on Wed Mar 10, 2010 10:22 pm

Perez Hilton has really been interested in Love Never Dies, I am not entirely sure why but he has been posting about the latest news etc for around the past year. Okay he is a celebrity blogger but I'll link it anyway: http://perezhilton.com/2010-03-10-phantom-sequel-premieres-to-mediocre-reviews I must admit "Maybe our singing will drown out all of the boos" did make me chuckle, slightly.

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Re: Love Never Dies - all views allowed

Post  ML6 on Thu Mar 11, 2010 2:10 am

Question: Why does Perez Hilton BLOG about Love Never Dies?
Answer: Because he trolls OhNoTheyDidnt livejournal community, and every time the user nemo_de_la_meer (that's me) posts something about the show, he copypasta's it onto his site and draws his icky little deisgns all over the pictures.

Seriously, he's only doing it because I take time to post it on the ONTD site and it gets sometimes 500 comments worth of people hating it.

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Re: Love Never Dies - all views allowed

Post  TheMaskedLion on Thu Mar 11, 2010 4:25 am

................................ Andrew. seek help.

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Re: Love Never Dies - all views allowed

Post  operafantomet on Thu Mar 11, 2010 7:44 am

My question about the robot: do they make a unique mask for each Christine principal and understudy? The original Mirror Bride had a generic face, but no one seems to mind or notice.
Whaddayamean? The mirror bride in the original production (at least in the US and UK) usually wears a mask based on the face of the principal Christine. This one, for example, is based on Celia Graham:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/operafantomet/Wedding/uk4.jpg

Not even that, it's based on her late run, when her make-up was different from her early run:
http://s638.photobucket.com/albums/uu101/potocostumes/countess/uk5celiag.jpg

Marni Raab also said something about the mirror bride doll being based on her when she did the US tour or on Broadway, an that she found it a bit eerie. I don't think she was joking, but as I can't find the interview, who knows.

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Re: Love Never Dies - all views allowed

Post  SenorSwanky on Thu Mar 11, 2010 11:06 am

Huh, I always thought it was just a general female face. Hadn't heard anything about Christines getting their faces cast.

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Re: Love Never Dies - all views allowed

Post  phantomgirl110 on Thu Mar 11, 2010 11:24 am

SenorSwanky wrote:
phantomgirl110 wrote:I can honestly say that the only draw is Ramin's voice.
I can't even commend that. As I've said elsewhere, it belongs more in Rent than in Phantom, especially an ostensibly 60-year-old Phantom (though obviously they've sadly and stupidly scaled back how old the Phantom is supposed to be with more recent casting in the original and in this sequel).
I didn't say I thought it was necessarily appropriate for the character. I don't really think it is; he sounds far too young. All I meant is that I think he has a lovely voice and if anything at all was going to draw me to see this show even a tiny bit, that would probably be it.

ML6 wrote:Question: Why does Perez Hilton BLOG about Love Never Dies?
Answer: Because he trolls OhNoTheyDidnt livejournal community, and every time the user nemo_de_la_meer (that's me) posts something about the show, he copypasta's it onto his site and draws his icky little deisgns all over the pictures.

Seriously, he's only doing it because I take time to post it on the ONTD site and it gets sometimes 500 comments worth of people hating it.
Hey there, fellow ONTDer! I had no idea you were nemo_de_la_meer. I see you there all the time. </random and OT>

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Re: Love Never Dies - all views allowed

Post  starryeyed on Thu Mar 11, 2010 11:51 am

Perez takes things from a tonne of sites. I've actually heard it isn't even Perez who personally blogs anymore and that he handed it over to someone else to do in 2007, but I find that odd as the comments he adds in usually sound very like him himself.

He hasn't been stealing anyones posts on the Spiderman musical has he? That is the only two musicals he blogs on Spiderman and Love Never Dies...

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Re: Love Never Dies - all views allowed

Post  Paula74 on Thu Mar 11, 2010 1:01 pm

SenorSwanky wrote:Huh, I always thought it was just a general female face. Hadn't heard anything about Christines getting their faces cast.

Maybe it's sort of both...a generic face, but cast from whomever is Christine at the time and used, regardless of who is Christine, until it needs to be replaced due to wear? Not that I've ever really looked at it that closely or compared it to any particular Christine to see a resemblance.

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Re: Love Never Dies - all views allowed

Post  starryeyed on Thu Mar 11, 2010 1:37 pm

The current London one looks nothing like Gina Beck or Tabitha Webb in my opinion (I'll need to scan in the picture of the mirror bride from the brochure later) but strangely something about it does remind me of Robyn North who left in September...

ETA: Sorry for the O/T and the quality of the pictures.

Current Mirror Bride

Unfortunately not face on but for comparison anyway...

Robyn North


It might just be me that sees it... meh.

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Re: Love Never Dies - all views allowed

Post  operafantomet on Thu Mar 11, 2010 2:51 pm

Paula74 wrote:
SenorSwanky wrote:Huh, I always thought it was just a general female face. Hadn't heard anything about Christines getting their faces cast.

Maybe it's sort of both...a generic face, but cast from whomever is Christine at the time and used, regardless of who is Christine, until it needs to be replaced due to wear?
That might be it.

Anyone knows which site recently (like the last 6 months) did an interview with Marni Raab? I wonder if it was when she started fill in on Broadway, or when she re-joined the tour... something... She explained how that dummy had a face modeled after her (though I'm not sure we're talking casting the face), and that she found it scary. Of course, that is different than the mirror bride wearing a mask based on the face of the actress, but if they bother with one, it can be an indication of them doing it with both. I might be crazy, but doesn't this look like Jennifer Hope Wills? It was worn when she performed in the US tour for a while:


As for that Celia Graham mask, I asked the lady who was mirror bride at the time, and she confirmed they wore different masks depending on the Christine. You can tell it apart from this one, worn when Rachel Barrell was principal Christine:

(I think this is a closeup from a brochure, but if not.... I'm breaking the forum rules... very embarassing... Anyone knows for sure?)

But maybe they abandoned that idea lately? I agree that the current mask looks like Robyn North's face, and that can date from the same time the Graham mask was in use - or it might even be the Graham mask. I sat way too far away from the Mirror Bride to get a view of the mask.

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Re: Love Never Dies - all views allowed

Post  Phantomlove on Thu Mar 11, 2010 3:06 pm

In Stockholm they had different masks on the mirror bride depending on which actress was on as Christine. I'm not sure I thought they looked that much like the actresses, but they had at least two different ones.

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Re: Love Never Dies - all views allowed

Post  operafantomet on Thu Mar 11, 2010 3:06 pm

They've actually gotten comments from Peter Karrie and John Owen-Jones about "Love Never Dies":
http://www.walesonline.co.uk/showbiz-and-lifestyle/showbiz/2010/03/11/lukewarm-reception-for-sequel-to-phantom-of-the-opera-91466-26007208/

Seems apparent none of them are in love with the show, as they both indicate it's unfinished and still in progress, and that the musical that'll hit Broadway will be a different one.

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Re: Love Never Dies - all views allowed

Post  SenorSwanky on Thu Mar 11, 2010 6:48 pm

operafantomet wrote:They've actually gotten comments from Peter Karrie and John Owen-Jones about "Love Never Dies":
http://www.walesonline.co.uk/showbiz-and-lifestyle/showbiz/2010/03/11/lukewarm-reception-for-sequel-to-phantom-of-the-opera-91466-26007208/

Seems apparent none of them are in love with the show, as they both indicate it's unfinished and still in progress, and that the musical that'll hit Broadway will be a different one.
Interesting JOJ and PK were so candid. I guess the latter has nothing to lose, since he's moved on to recording standards and isn't likely to be employed by RUG again, but JOJ, on the other hand.... Love JOJ's KISS shirt as well. Very Happy

Owen-Jones said the follow-up reminded him of the Star Wars franchise re-boot
Very good analogy. George Lucas was similarly washed-up, and he couldn't replicate the spirit of his original films.

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Re: Love Never Dies - all views allowed

Post  LadyCDaae on Thu Mar 11, 2010 7:25 pm

SenorSwanky wrote:
Owen-Jones said the follow-up reminded him of the Star Wars franchise re-boot
Very good analogy. George Lucas was similarly washed-up, and he couldn't replicate the spirit of his original films.

There's also the fact Lucas felt the need to take one of the most imposing, iconic villains in film history and turn him (retroactively) into a whining, selfish pretty boy who was no more intriguing than he was sympathetic. Do not want, indeed. Razz

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Re: Love Never Dies - all views allowed

Post  ML6 on Thu Mar 11, 2010 7:39 pm

phantomgirl110 wrote:

ML6 wrote:Question: Why does Perez Hilton BLOG about Love Never Dies?
Answer: Because he trolls OhNoTheyDidnt livejournal community, and every time the user nemo_de_la_meer (that's me) posts something about the show, he copypasta's it onto his site and draws his icky little deisgns all over the pictures.

Seriously, he's only doing it because I take time to post it on the ONTD site and it gets sometimes 500 comments worth of people hating it.
Hey there, fellow ONTDer! I had no idea you were nemo_de_la_meer. I see you there all the time. </random and OT>

YEAH. THAT'D BE ME, GIRL! Who are you on ontd? That place is so addicting. Gonna be my one year anniversary soon!

Anyway, to the current topic on hand - I don't understand the purpose the doll holds in the new show. The thing about the old Phantom show is that everything brought into the scene had to do with the show at the current moment or in the future. The doll just gives you creepy vibes like it was used for sexual means... *shudders*

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Re: Love Never Dies - all views allowed

Post  Madame Giry on Thu Mar 11, 2010 7:55 pm

Okay so I finally listened to the soundtrack.

Pardon my quotage, but what a lamentable mess! The whole thing is just so all over the place and riddled with ridiculous plot contrivances and terrible lyrics. Since we've all torn apart the plot, I'm going to focus primarily on the music and some characterizations.

Others have done a pretty good job of picking over the album's flaws, so I'll just list a few of the things that irritated me the most:
- I swear the word 'beautiful' is used about 1429 times
- There were two songs I couldn't make it through: a) Beneath A Moonless Sky, which had a nice haunting tune that was one of the things I enjoyed from the 2004 film, but the cheesy and sleazy lyrics made it impossible to enjoy. b) Bathing Beauty, and I really don't think I have to elaborate here
- So many pretty, but unfortunately boring melodies (Look With Your Heart, Beautiful, Once Upon Another Time...)
- Good grief but Christine takes forever to die! I mean, honestly, after Gustav screams 'NOOOO!' and there's a crash of dramatic music it's confusing as heck when she starts singing again - and continues to do so for like the next four mintues
- Madame Giry's accent *twitch*

There were a couple things I did like, not mindblowing, but definitely better than the remainder:
- I used to dislike Till I Hear You Sing a lot, but it's grown on me and as a stand-alone song, I wouldn't mind listening to it
- The Devil Take the Hindmost Quartet has some really nice interweaving of melodies that kinda reminds me of the quartet in Jekyll & Hyde
- It sounds crazy, but I like the bartender at the beginning of Why Does She Love Me. He just strikes the right chord with me in the delivery of his lines

I think I would probably listen to a Phantasia-style orchestral medly of LND music, but as it stands I can't see myself listening through the cast album in its entirety ever again. If this show is going to 'work' at all, it's going to need a major overhaul.

~Madame~

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Re: Love Never Dies - all views allowed

Post  Aled_Boyo on Thu Mar 11, 2010 8:14 pm

JOJ has pretty much nailed it, I think. I'm listening to the soundtrack right now; the music is great, I won't deny it. The story (from what I can make out at this point) is so corny! It really is like a soap opera - affairs andillegitimate children and the like..

Liking most of the music so far, though. It's just a shame he wasted it on such a ropey storyline.

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Re: Love Never Dies - all views allowed

Post  Viscountess on Thu Mar 11, 2010 10:21 pm

operafantomet wrote:Anyone knows which site recently (like the last 6 months) did an interview with Marni Raab? I wonder if it was when she started fill in on Broadway, or when she re-joined the tour... something... She explained how that dummy had a face modeled after her (though I'm not sure we're talking casting the face), and that she found it scary.
I remember reading it was a caption for one of of the backstage pictures of the World Tour from her website, if that helps any.

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Re: Love Never Dies - all views allowed

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