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Phantom costumes - real and replicas 1

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Post  operafantomet Fri Aug 06, 2010 10:14 am

More backdrapes spamming...

Phantom costumes - real and replicas 1 - Page 17 Th_bd1Phantom costumes - real and replicas 1 - Page 17 Th_bd2Phantom costumes - real and replicas 1 - Page 17 Th_nedrapes2Phantom costumes - real and replicas 1 - Page 17 Th_bd4
1. This X2 forms the backdrape. It's basically two straight panels with a triangle in between, and with a curved bottom and pointed top. The pointed top is what allows the waterfall drapes to happen.
2. The inside is lined with two fabrics: a shot red/orange one, and a stripy one. I suspect the US costumes are fully lined with a stripy fabric, but I simply couldn't afford it.
3. A big U will eventually become the draped peplum in the waist. It's made of the same fabrics as the backdrape.The peplum is based on the Vegas costumes, which has cut the stripes horizontally rather than vertically. When draped some of the stripes still end up vertically, which is cool. The peplum will be sewn to the backdrape.
4. A preliminary drape. Will have to try out several versions to get a funky look both from the back, the front and the sides. I will also have to consider making tons more black triangles to attach to the red side, identical to those in the apron. Stage costumes have it, but it'll be lots of work for such a small detail. 10 meter of fabric was used!

Speaking of which, I've updated the Carlotta Elissa gallery with some fantastic backdrape photos. I wish I had found the US tour one earlier! I love how simple and clean the drapes look. But the West End ones are also to die for.
http://potocostumes.webs.com/hannibal/elissacarlotta.html

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Post  operafantomet Sun Aug 08, 2010 5:46 am

Michaela posted a link to this in her blog. The seller calls it a seadress, she suggests it's a morning dress instead. Whatever the case it does remind a bit of Christine's dredding gown in the upper half:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Charming-1880s-Organdy-Bustle-Sea-Side-Gown-/200505955204?pt=Vintage_Women_s_Clothing


ETA: the Elissa costume now has bead belt/false bodice!
Phantom costumes - real and replicas 1 - Page 17 Nebelt2

Still lack a couple of gems here and there, and I also have to continue the bead belt towards the back + attach it. But it's basically finished. Next up: Tuck down waterfall drapes, plus stiffen the tabs & line them.

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Post  Guest Tue Aug 10, 2010 1:09 am

Some of my progress...

Wedding Dress

Progress: http://qazklh.deviantart.com/#/d2u4pr8
Finished: http://qazklh.deviantart.com/#/d2vyrd3


Star Princess

Finished: http://qazklh.deviantart.com/#/d2vd2ae


More photos at my costume blog, artistkae.tumblr.com ... currently working on the monkey girl right now for phans weekend in Pittsburgh.

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Post  Loettchen Tue Aug 10, 2010 2:59 am

operafantomet wrote:Speaking of which, I've updated the Carlotta Elissa gallery with some fantastic backdrape photos. I wish I had found the US tour one earlier! I love how simple and clean the drapes look. But the West End ones are also to die for.
http://potocostumes.webs.com/hannibal/elissacarlotta.html

I really like how the stripes on your backdrape came out! Lovely colors, but not overwhelming. And I'm with you on the blue/purple thing. I've never liked that purple color, but I actually think some of the new photos you put up on the site have softened my opinion a little.


Artistkae, lovely photos. I like the bow on the back of the Wedding Dress!
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Post  operafantomet Tue Aug 10, 2010 6:54 am

Loettchen wrote:
operafantomet wrote:Speaking of which, I've updated the Carlotta Elissa gallery with some fantastic backdrape photos. I wish I had found the US tour one earlier! I love how simple and clean the drapes look. But the West End ones are also to die for.
http://potocostumes.webs.com/hannibal/elissacarlotta.html

I really like how the stripes on your backdrape came out! Lovely colors, but not overwhelming. And I'm with you on the blue/purple thing. I've never liked that purple color, but I actually think some of the new photos you put up on the site have softened my opinion a little.
I agree, there are nice versions and just plainly odd ones. I'm quite taken with one used by Kimilee Bryant, I think it was in the US tour. A gold patterned fabric in green, red, purple and mustard was used in the backdrapes, and the colours look balanced towards the main skirt. You can see it here (except the mustard is barely visible):
https://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v323/reiseaudun/designhannibal/elissacus9.jpg

This was the one I went by for my own backdrapes, but the best I found was the one I used - with narrower stripes, and blue instead of purple. There is a gold pattern in mine, but not nearly as pronounced and ornamental as the Kimilee Bryant one. But I think the overall look will be good. The fabric looks nice towards the skirt, at least. I'm very happy you liked the preliminary pictures!

Artistkae, I love both that Star Princess and wedding dress of yours! cheers

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Post  operafantomet Sun Aug 15, 2010 8:13 pm

Elissa update:

*Backdrapes are as good as finished. The peplum turned out way too full, but redoing it will take forever and stop the whole project. Ain't gonna happen, so I'll just have to tweak it around a bit. The actual waterfall drapes turned out well!

ETA: I even have picture proof...
Phantom costumes - real and replicas 1 - Page 17 Th_nebackdrapesdone
Everything of the backdrape is attached to an individual waistband. It'll be sewn to the skirt halfway, and the second half will be a loose flap attached by either velcro or hooks and eyes at the side, to hide the skirt gap.


*Lining the tabs as we speak, with black polyester. Might be the most boring thing ever. But it'll improve the overall quality, and finally enable me to sew on the tabs to the skirt.

*As soon as the tabs are attached, I can attach the apron/false bodice. And once that is done, I can finish the beaded belt in the back, and I will only have the hem and the closing patent left!! As well as the netting underskirt... Anyone who has some spare 20+ yards of black tulle? No?


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Post  operafantomet Mon Aug 16, 2010 8:39 am

This link say the Victoria and Albert museum in London has Phantom costume(s) on display in the theatre section. Anyone who's been there and can confirm this? And are we then talking stage version or movie version? I assume the former, but you never know...
http://www.adam-ant.net/vanda.html


And for those of you who haven't read the RUG interview with gina Beck, here are some fun costume details:

What’s your favourite costume as Christine?
The mausoleum dress. The blue one. I think it's pure silk and it was handmade for me…it’s just the most beautiful dress in the world. And sadly it has a cloak over it quite a lot of the time

About wearing the costumes:
They’re all so heavy, my dresser shows people around the costumes sometimes, she always makes them pick them up just to see how heavy they are. They’re all attached to me by the bodice bit, so that you can’t quite feel how heavy they are cos they’re sort of anchored onto you, but when you try and pick them up…!

Do you have two versions of dresses for cleaning?
No, they try and do it when I’m away… because I’ve got Monday and Thursday off, so they try and do it then. They can’t dry clean them that often because they’re so delicate.


It's funny, basically all actresses asked about their favourite costume say the Wishing dress. Never the Star Princess one, never the dressing gown, never the Elissa costume, never the Il Muto ones, and only sometime the Aminta and wedding dress. It seems to correspond with the fans - we're all crazy about that blue dress, aren't we? Funny though, I think it's one of Maria Bjørnson's least inspired Christine sketches. But the stage costumes are soooo beautiful. I blame it on the stripy silk...

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Post  Christine's Shadow Tue Aug 17, 2010 11:04 am

operafantomet wrote:This link say the Victoria and Albert museum in London has Phantom costume(s) on display in the theatre section. Anyone who's been there and can confirm this? And are we then talking stage version or movie version? I assume the former, but you never know...
http://www.adam-ant.net/vanda.html


by the looks of this:

http://www.vam.ac.uk/collections/theatre_performance/features/Costume/1739_Designing_Costumes/index.html

it looks like it's possibly stage costumes unless that site has always referred to Maria's designs there.
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Post  operafantomet Tue Aug 17, 2010 4:33 pm

Christine's Shadow wrote:
by the looks of this:

http://www.vam.ac.uk/collections/theatre_performance/features/Costume/1739_Designing_Costumes/index.html

it looks like it's possibly stage costumes unless that site has always referred to Maria's designs there.
They treat the costume design as an independent piece of history, AKA having its own academic value. So them having some of her design doesn't automatically mean they'll have the costumes of which they have the design - if you follow me. But it seems unlikely they would feature movie costumes when the exhibition is largely stage based. I want to go to London again!!


ETA: Elissa progress since last time...

*Line the tabs (one down, two to go)
*Sew tabs to skirt (one down, two to go)
*Add more sparkle to tabs
*Sew skirt/false bodice (which is one piece) to the skirt
*Sew hem
*Attach pleated hem
*Replace crappy gold with quality gold on the tassels
*Attach all tassels
*Attach gems over tassels
*Sew backdrapes to skirt
*Sew hooks and eyes to backdrapes and skirt
*Sew velcro to backdrapes and skirt
*Finish beaded belt + attach
*Make giant black netting underskirt (which is the bleeeeh job!)

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Post  operafantomet Thu Aug 26, 2010 8:43 am

Did y'all see the wonderful US "Degas" wigs Artistkae won in an auction some time ago? One Meg wig of a discontinued colour, and one brown Christine coloured wig. Both still have lush curls. She's put out some pics in her blog, here:
http://artistkae.tumblr.com/post/967897962/real-wigs-from-the-show

On a totally unrelated note, I've started on Madame Giry's Masquerade cloak. It won't be a replica of a particular version, rather a short, black cloak decorated with black beads, sequins and whatnot. I did a similar black-on-black deco for my boss this summer, for suspenders, and they looked so funky on stage. The black was shimmering like crazy, but still in a subtle way, cause there were no obvious source for the shimmer. I wanted to experiment with black-on-black again, and I had one meter of thick black silk. And then I thought of Madame Giry's shimmering, black cloak. The fabric was cut in the most fabric-saving way I could come up with - basically a lot of triangles which were patched together. When assembled, I used scraps to bind the top, and the bottom was cut to form a curved cloak.

Phantom costumes - real and replicas 1 - Page 17 Mamegiry1
Knowing me there won't be any further progress until next year sometime... But I wanted to share anyway.

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Post  Viscountess Fri Aug 27, 2010 12:49 am

SO... it's probably a little somewhat apparent that my current project is Meg's Gypsy costume (like the least photographed costume ever), the current US version.

Phantom costumes - real and replicas 1 - Page 17 Gypsyus4

So I just have some random opinion questions I'd like to throw out there, maybe get a fresh perspective on things. I'm trying to make it as accurate as possible.

1) Do those red aprons look like they're cut in an a-line or do they look like rectangles gathered at the top?
2) Is it just me or does it look like there's blue in those tassels at the bottom?
3) Is purple or blue or something else entirely the dominant color in the bodice?

Aaaaand more when I come to them.
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Post  Callie Daae Fri Aug 27, 2010 2:15 am

I just got the gorgeous Christine-Masquerade Maria Bjornson replica print in the mail today! It's beautiful and will look great in my room! I'm adding the other three to my Christmas list. Very Happy
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Post  Loettchen Tue Aug 31, 2010 8:55 am

Viscountess wrote:
1) Do those red aprons look like they're cut in an a-line or do they look like rectangles gathered at the top?
2) Is it just me or does it look like there's blue in those tassels at the bottom?
3) Is purple or blue or something else entirely the dominant color in the bodice?

I'm gonna vote for purple on the bodice. That's how it looks on my screen, althought the picture's a tad red overall. There are some versions that look lighter/bluer, but I don't think this one does. I would go with purple on the tassles as well, just to match, but that's just my opinion 'cause I can't see them well enough to comment more. And I'm not good enough to tackle #1!

I don't think you can go that wrong, though. Good luck on the costume. It looks like a lot of fun to make!
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Post  operafantomet Tue Aug 31, 2010 9:06 am

Viscountess wrote:
1) Do those red aprons look like they're cut in an a-line or do they look like rectangles gathered at the top?
2) Is it just me or does it look like there's blue in those tassels at the bottom?
3) Is purple or blue or something else entirely the dominant color in the bodice?

Aaaaand more when I come to them.

1. I think they're straight strips slightly gathered or pleated at top (unlike the Elissa ones). Might be slightly shaped to follow the bell shape of the skirt, but not a lot.

2. The tassels of the Vegas version(s) seems to be multicoloured; in red, yellow and green or blue (can't tell). Elder US versions have also used monocrome golden/yellow or red tassels, from what I can tell from pictures.

3. The bodice is a lot more multicoloured that pictures reveals. The base is a black or dark blue/purple nuance, and there's a pattern I can't quite make out (large rosettas or flowers?) in many colours: pink, greyish blue, peach... The fabric almost looks like what's called "Chiné à la branche" in French. It's a water-blotting printed pattern simulating a Japanese weave, and can be seen in this Rococo dress:
http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_krtvcxj2lz1qa8kowo1_500.jpg

Have in mind I've only seen pictures, and not even closeups. I can be very wrong! But what I can tell is that the fabric is highly pattern and multi coloured, with a dark base. The front has a mock lacing of red and yellow cords, and there's various blue and golden trims as well. The Vegas version have a golden, assymetrical bell trim in front and over the shoulders (draped in a similar manner to the Hannibal slavegirl beads). Other US versions have used a "coin" trim, often repeated in a necklace and the headscarf too.

Hope that helped!

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Post  Guest Tue Aug 31, 2010 11:56 pm

Hope these help you a little bit, with the skirt at least. You can see the bodice fabric peeking out from the top of the video frame, lol:

Phantom costumes - real and replicas 1 - Page 17 Picture6-1

Phantom costumes - real and replicas 1 - Page 17 Picture3-2

Phantom costumes - real and replicas 1 - Page 17 Picture2-2

Phantom costumes - real and replicas 1 - Page 17 Picture4-1

Phantom costumes - real and replicas 1 - Page 17 Picture5-1


These were from an interview in Cleveland just recently. On the costume part, they had Frankie talking about the quick costume changes, like Christine's T.O.M. change; they showed the inside of that Elissa skirt which actually has hoops... they showed this Meg one - she particularly said that she liked the pink on the yellow fabric of the skirt. I think they also showed the Count's costume from Il Muto. I could upload some more screen caps if anyone wants.

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Post  Viscountess Wed Sep 01, 2010 1:04 am

Loettchen wrote:
Viscountess wrote:
1) Do those red aprons look like they're cut in an a-line or do they look like rectangles gathered at the top?
2) Is it just me or does it look like there's blue in those tassels at the bottom?
3) Is purple or blue or something else entirely the dominant color in the bodice?

I'm gonna vote for purple on the bodice. That's how it looks on my screen, althought the picture's a tad red overall. There are some versions that look lighter/bluer, but I don't think this one does. I would go with purple on the tassles as well, just to match, but that's just my opinion 'cause I can't see them well enough to comment more. And I'm not good enough to tackle #1!

I don't think you can go that wrong, though. Good luck on the costume. It looks like a lot of fun to make!
I've been thinking purple too, I remember the pattern on most of the bodice (other than the front panel) looks like the water blotted style operafantomet mentioned. B

But for the most part I've been looking for a patterned fabric in the purple fabric, rather than blue. Jessi Erhlich/Paloma Lee's dress has this GORGEOUS Chinese lilac brocade that I've been looking around for, figuring that would be easier than the other, but nooooooooooo, I can barely find light purple Chinese brocade, period. Crying or Very sad
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Post  Viscountess Wed Sep 01, 2010 1:10 am

operafantomet wrote:
Viscountess wrote:
1) Do those red aprons look like they're cut in an a-line or do they look like rectangles gathered at the top?
2) Is it just me or does it look like there's blue in those tassels at the bottom?
3) Is purple or blue or something else entirely the dominant color in the bodice?

Aaaaand more when I come to them.

1. I think they're straight strips slightly gathered or pleated at top (unlike the Elissa ones). Might be slightly shaped to follow the bell shape of the skirt, but not a lot.
I like the idea of just doing it straight and gathering it at the top. After figuring out the skirt, I'm probably going to be too lazy to do anything other than split the red fabric in four and be done with it.

2. The tassels of the Vegas version(s) seems to be multicoloured; in red, yellow and green or blue (can't tell). Elder US versions have also used monocrome golden/yellow or red tassels, from what I can tell from pictures.
I'm seeing red and green on the right side apron, so hopefully I can go with that. Maybe the blue is from the floral of the red fabric?

3. The bodice is a lot more multicoloured that pictures reveals. The base is a black or dark blue/purple nuance, and there's a pattern I can't quite make out (large rosettas or flowers?) in many colours: pink, greyish blue, peach... The fabric almost looks like what's called "Chiné à la branche" in French. It's a water-blotting printed pattern simulating a Japanese weave, and can be seen in this Rococo dress:
http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_krtvcxj2lz1qa8kowo1_500.jpg
I think you're right about the Chiné à la branche, that's definitely something for me too look out for the next time I go shopping.

Thanks for replying!
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Post  Viscountess Wed Sep 01, 2010 1:11 am

artistkae wrote:Hope these help you a little bit, with the skirt at least. You can see the bodice fabric peeking out from the top of the video frame, lol:
OMG DROOL. Why have you hid this from me for so long? Very Happy
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Post  Guest Wed Sep 01, 2010 1:16 am

Viscountess wrote:
But for the most part I've been looking for a patterned fabric in the purple fabric, rather than blue. Jessi Erhlich/Paloma Lee's dress has this GORGEOUS Chinese lilac brocade that I've been looking around for, figuring that would be easier than the other, but nooooooooooo, I can barely find light purple Chinese brocade, period. Crying or Very sad

Do you like any of these?

Phantom costumes - real and replicas 1 - Page 17 0012-407

Phantom costumes - real and replicas 1 - Page 17 0012-220

Phantom costumes - real and replicas 1 - Page 17 0012-258

http://www.syfabrics.com/ProductPhotos/Large/lightpurpledragonpeacock[1].jpg (Can't hotlink this photo)

Phantom costumes - real and replicas 1 - Page 17 51LS%2BYmp2TL._SS500_

Phantom costumes - real and replicas 1 - Page 17 OF470_200

Phantom costumes - real and replicas 1 - Page 17 Lilac_paisley_brocade_400

Phantom costumes - real and replicas 1 - Page 17 RenaissanceBrocade

Phantom costumes - real and replicas 1 - Page 17 Purple-on-purple-brocade


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Post  Guest Wed Sep 01, 2010 1:25 am

Viscountess wrote:
artistkae wrote:Hope these help you a little bit, with the skirt at least. You can see the bodice fabric peeking out from the top of the video frame, lol:
OMG DROOL. Why have you hid this from me for so long? Very Happy

I was trying to find a way to upload the entire hour long show but I didn't have time, LOL! The costume segment is about 10 minutes long. Here are more photos:


=======

Toy Soldier

She spoke about the blue metallic fabric looking like it was made of metal on stage, like a toy.


Phantom costumes - real and replicas 1 - Page 17 Picture2-3

Phantom costumes - real and replicas 1 - Page 17 Picture3-3

Phantom costumes - real and replicas 1 - Page 17 Picture4-2

Phantom costumes - real and replicas 1 - Page 17 Picture5-2




The Count

On this one she spoke about how detailed the costumes are; how they are supposed to be "sensual and sumptuous"... she pointed out the grapes on the sleeve, the lace, the embroidery over top of the normal fabric, the appliques, etc.

Phantom costumes - real and replicas 1 - Page 17 Picture6-2

Phantom costumes - real and replicas 1 - Page 17 Picture7-1

Phantom costumes - real and replicas 1 - Page 17 Picture8-1

Phantom costumes - real and replicas 1 - Page 17 Picture9-1




Christine-Elissa

Phantom costumes - real and replicas 1 - Page 17 Picture11

Phantom costumes - real and replicas 1 - Page 17 Picture12




Christine-Countess

Phantom costumes - real and replicas 1 - Page 17 Picture13




Carlotta-Elissa - Back

Phantom costumes - real and replicas 1 - Page 17 Picture14

Phantom costumes - real and replicas 1 - Page 17 Picture15

Phantom costumes - real and replicas 1 - Page 17 Picture16




A dress in DJT

She spoke about how the dresses are all boned on the inside but soft and beautiful on the outside.

Phantom costumes - real and replicas 1 - Page 17 Picture17




Sylvan Glade - Back - and an Il Muto costume to the left

She explained that the bows were made of linen and would start to tear at the folded part of the bow, so they have to keep their "high tech devices" aka waterbottles in them to keep the shape of the bow, lol.

Phantom costumes - real and replicas 1 - Page 17 Picture19

Phantom costumes - real and replicas 1 - Page 17 Picture18

Phantom costumes - real and replicas 1 - Page 17 Picture10

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Post  Viscountess Wed Sep 01, 2010 1:44 am

artistkae wrote:Do you like any of these?

http://www.thaisilks.com/images/print/lg/0012-220.jpg

http://www.thaisilks.com/images/print/lg/0012-258.jpg
OOH. I'm really loving these two from Thai silks. That second one would be PERFECT if it were just a tad less blue.

http://www.tiesbynelsonwade.com/images/tie_custom/lilac_paisley_brocade_400.jpg
And this one is just to die for, I saw a light purple paisley at the store the other day, but at $22 a yard, I had to hesitate.
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Post  MasqPhan Wed Sep 01, 2010 2:09 am

I have no idea on the names of materials but up close there is a lot of red in the front panel of the bodice of the Gypsy costume I've seen. It felt like a red background and then various colours in the pattern(purple/periwinkle/yellow gold.

I have a few swatches of Meg fabrics and this is a piece of the red skirt material. It's pretty sheer with flower embroidery.

Phantom costumes - real and replicas 1 - Page 17 Th_SANY1409

Another piece of Meg material that I believe was used in the ruffle part on the shoulder but I forget exactly where it goes. Someone feel free to correct me. Embarassed

Phantom costumes - real and replicas 1 - Page 17 Th_SANY1413

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Post  operafantomet Wed Sep 01, 2010 9:01 am

Awesome screencaps, artistkae! Thanks for sharing them with us.

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Post  Guest Wed Sep 01, 2010 3:15 pm

operafantomet wrote:Awesome screencaps, artistkae! Thanks for sharing them with us.


Feel free to use them if you need them!

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Post  operafantomet Wed Sep 01, 2010 9:04 pm

artistkae wrote:
operafantomet wrote:Awesome screencaps, artistkae! Thanks for sharing them with us.
Feel free to use them if you need them!
That is highly appreciated, and not unlikely! Smile

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Post  Viscountess Sat Sep 04, 2010 9:53 pm

MasqPhan, thank you so much for that! You have no idea how much that helps in the bodice material search!

Does anyone know whether the coins are gold of silver? (Yep, I am totally getting hung up over that.)
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Post  MasqPhan Sat Sep 04, 2010 11:51 pm

Viscountess wrote:MasqPhan, thank you so much for that! You have no idea how much that helps in the bodice material search!

Does anyone know whether the coins are gold of silver? (Yep, I am totally getting hung up over that.)

Wish I had more materials from the costume. So many pretty colours.

The coins are gold and if you go with bells, they're gold too.

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Post  operafantomet Sun Sep 05, 2010 11:33 am

Such coin decorations, be it belts, shawls or other, is frequently found in bellydance costumes. I have a friend who's an active dancer, and her dance wardrobe is a dream in coins, bells and other "plinging" items. You can of course make it yourself, but you might have luck with finding cheap alternatives on eBay etc. if you search for bellydance items.

I uploaded two pics of the original Gypsy costume the other day. That bodice appears to be one-coloured, but with a gorgeous rose appliquée deco. I liked that a lot! Showing here:
https://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v323/reiseaudun/designdonjuan/origwestend1986gypsy1.jpg

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Post  Viscountess Sun Sep 05, 2010 3:38 pm

operafantomet wrote:Such coin decorations, be it belts, shawls or other, is frequently found in bellydance costumes. I have a friend who's an active dancer, and her dance wardrobe is a dream in coins, bells and other "plinging" items. You can of course make it yourself, but you might have luck with finding cheap alternatives on eBay etc. if you search for bellydance items.

I uploaded two pics of the original Gypsy costume the other day. That bodice appears to be one-coloured, but with a gorgeous rose appliquée deco. I liked that a lot! Showing here:
https://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v323/reiseaudun/designdonjuan/origwestend1986gypsy1.jpg
It took going to like ten different trim/button's 'n things stores stores before I actually sat my butt down in from of eBay and got a hundred for 5 bucks. But they were fifty silver and fifty gold so I was all "Oh crap, I forgot what color the coins were!!!"

Ooh, that rose applique is just lovely!
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Post  operafantomet Mon Sep 06, 2010 7:03 am

But a hundred coins for 5 bucks is a bargain! You can always paint/spray the remaining 50 with gold.

Glad you liked the rose detail too. It's a picture from the Marcus Tylor book, which has been in my possession for some years now (I bought it when it was published). And I've looked at that picture many times and thought that detail looks gorgeous. But for some reason I never thought of it as the gypsy costume. When I browsed through the book the other day that was the first think I saw/realized! Laughing

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