Love Never Dies - all views allowed

I've said it before, I've said it again, how did they even MANAGE to shut Love Should Die down?

What was their reasoning? It can't just be that the page was anti-sequel, can it?

ML6 wrote:So, 3.16.09, the day that Love Should Die was shut down by RUG (and supporters of the show). Love Should Die, I salute you for uniting us all as one. <3

What?! Can they do that?

Awww....threatened, much?

Hopefull LSD will find its way back onto Facebook and continue making RUG cry in the fetal position.

Lucy, thank you very much for your excellent review. The chances of me ever seeing this are next to nil...unless LND tours the country like Phantom did for years, and the touring company happened to pick my city, and I had some extra money I didn't need for groceries or gas...

But even though I won't/don't wanna see it, I'm still very much interested in what others think of it--both pro and con. So again, thanks for the in depth review.

Exactly. For sake, Webber, have some continuity.

Surely you jest. Continuity? Why, if he'd bothered with continuity, we wouldn't have this sequel. Maybe A sequel...but not this one. (And probably a better one, too.)

Edited to add: Yikes! I missed that about LSH being shut down by RUG. Yeah...money talks, and has the power to, er, persuade. It's a shame that dissenting positions are not allowed, even on social networking sites like FB.

ML6 wrote:So, 3.16.09, the day that Love Should Die was shut down by RUG (and supporters of the show). Love Should Die, I salute you for uniting us all as one. <3

What?!? So upset about this!!! I sincerly hope LSD can regroup - I thought it was a rally effective platform for the many, many disappointed phans to come together and voice their opinions. Clearly, it was too effective and RUG felt the need to shut it down. Once again, I find I must shake my fist in anger at the PTB.... why must it always be war between us??? (And yes, I know that isn't a direct quote, I just liked the way it came out....)

Also, FYE, I think a lot of folks probably already saw Jeff and I post this on facebook and etc., but thought we'd share it here too before it also gets yanked by RUG. May I present a parody music video of 'The Beauty Underneath', as created by Jeff and myself this past weekend.... ::crosses fingers and hopes this works...::



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WRN-L8gRqFo

I'm actually having a little trouble breathing right now. That was absolutely hysterical!

RUG pisses me off!

I recommend we all contact the press who reported out group in their articles and let them know that RUG had the group removed...

Here is a list of critics from the last message from LSD prior to opening night.

CRITICS IN THE UK:

Charles Spencer: charles.spencer@telegraph.co.uk

Christopher Hart: cwnhart@hotmail.com

Mark Shenton: shentonmark@btinternet.com (Twitter name = Twitter @ShentonStage)

Alastair Macaulay alastair.macaulay@ft.com

Matt Wolf: culvul@aol.com

Tim Walker: tim.walker@telegraph.co.uk

Toby Young: howtolose@hotmail.com

Victoria Segal: culture@sunday-times.co.uk
Dominic Cavendish: dominic.cavendish@telegraph.co.uk

Ian Shuttleworth: ian@shutters.cix.co.uk

Paul Taylor: p.taylor@independent.co.uk

Aleks Sierz: sierz@btinternet.com

Kate Bassett: k.bassett@independent.co.uk

Benedict Nightingale: benedictnightingale@compuserve.com (Nightingale has announced his retirement, but always worth a try!)

Michael Billington: Michael.billington@guardian.co.uk

Henry Hitchings: henry.hitchings@standard.co.uk (Twitter name = @HenryHitchings)

Nick Curtis: Twitter name = @nickcurtis


CRITICS IN NORTH AMERICA:

Michael Riedel: michael.riedel@nypost.com

Ben Brantley: http://topics.nytimes.com/topics/reference/timestopics/people/b/ben_brantley/index.html - scroll down and click email link

Richard Ouzounian: rouzounian@sympatico.ca

Robin Leach: Twitter name = @Robin_Leach

I'm not sure they could take it down just based on the written content otherwise they'd be out to crucify a lot of reviewers by now. ha ha

However I could see them legally being able to go after LSD based on their logo. It's a pretty
close copy of the actual logo other than the wording. I've seen other people gone after for doing such things and the big company that went after them won.

One example is a cute parody site of the Wynn/Encore hotels in Vegas. The site wasn't nasty at all and their parent site is actually a good Vegas hotel review site. Steve Wynn was not amused though that the parody site closely copied his logo(other than changed wording) and successfully went after them on that.

We've probably all seen lots of fake logos mocking a product, tv show, movie and the powers that be ignore them even though they could possibly go after them if they wanted to. With ALW on the rampage regarding his precious Love Never Dies, there's no way he's going to ignore Love Should Die especially with the media now taking some notice of the site.

Having said that I do agree it could make interesting news if folks contacted the media about it. It would show it's more than just the same five people writing all the negative comments like ALW said.

Whatever happened to Freedom of Speech?

Freedom of speech is one thing; copyright infringement is another. I think most suspect that the page was removed because of copyright issues.

Okay, RUG. Either it's just a handful of "sad obsessed" people complaining for no apparent reason, in which case why bother with something that's no real threat, or there is legitimate negative word-of-mouth going on about this nonsense, in which case do you think shutting down the primary anti-LND forum is going to stop it?

Seriously, what is the general word of mouth on this? Reports on the Internet are mixed to say the least, and I'm hearing a lot of false consensus (ie. "everyone obviously loved/hated it!").

~LCD

Ok...I could understand them making people take down individual posts that say, had links to recordings posted in them. But to make them take down the entire page? I didn't know that they could do that!

It's not like it's the first time that there has ever been a hate group. Such is the nature of the internet. When something is in the public eye, there are bound to be some strong opinions! And it's kinda pathetic that the RUG is clearly so threatened by LSD! If LND were really were such a strong show....surely they wouldn't be so threatened by a Facebook page.

And really...do they think that taking down that page is going to make such a difference in whether or not the show is a success? If a show is bad, people are going to talk about it. And it's not like they're not going to talk about it elsewhere on the internet.

OY.

This is why I'm really interested in knowing the reason behind the group being taken off Facebook, so I can better understand the forces at work here. Granted, I really didn't have a lot of interest in seeing the show in the first place, but if it turns out to be true that RUG and/or ALW had something to do with this, that will simply make me all the more against the show. How does that old saying go? If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen?

ML6 wrote:So, 3.16.09, the day that Love Should Die was shut down by RUG (and supporters of the show). Love Should Die, I salute you for uniting us all as one. <3

I can't see how that is legal. A sad attempt to quell any objection to LND on RUG and Webbers part. I would say a sad attempt on the supporters of the show as well, but to date im not aware the show has any. Shame on you RUG for trying to silence freedom of speech. Bravo to LSD for all your hard work, and I will pray that soon you are back up and running in another form.

Oh dear, just heard about this on Facebook. Have to say I find it pretty hilarious if RUG are involved because apparently a multi-million pound show that's set to go global is apparently threatened by a small Facebook community. Reminds me of that lyric in Evita: "...those who oppose you are stepped on, or cut up, or simply disappear..."

I'd be surprised if copyright, as some has suggested here, has anything to do with it. What did LSD use that was copyrighted? The logo isn't a manipulation of the LND logo, it's a different font altogether, you can tell. Not surprised that RUG came up with something though; IIRC the LSD Twitter was suspended briefly thanks to a RUG complaint months ago.

By the way, Anéa will probably disagree with me, but I still think we should rename this board from 'Andrew Lloyd Webber's Phantom of the Opera' to 'Hal Prince's Phantom of the Opera (music by Lloyd Webber, lyrics by Hart & Stilgoe)' or 'The Phantom of the Opera (1986 stage musical)' or something like that as a petty protest of our own. ALW is doing my head in. I just have to laugh at the man and his company, I suppose I can at least enjoy the comedy of it all...

Phantomess wrote:Ok...I could understand them making people take down individual posts that say, had links to recordings posted in them. But to make them take down the entire page? I didn't know that they could do that!

If there were posts that had links to illegal copies of the LND soundtrack and if the owners of LSD knew about these posts and permitted them to stay up (or even if it was an oversight and they just didn't notice and would have taken them down if they had), that might have given RUG the push it would have needed with Facebook to get the LSD group shut down.

Regardless, I do think that RUG's clout was a big factor in Facebook's decision to pull the plug on LSD. It is disappointing and a shame and reminds me of back in the early days of the fandom on the internet when RUG went around threatening legal action against fans who used the cracked lettering title logo on their personal homepages. As others have suggested, it seems RUG felt that LSD was a bigger threat than they publicly let on. It's possible that if the above is true, they didn't have a good reason to go after LSD until now.

Here's hoping that the dedicated people behind LSD will regroup and find another way to bring the group back. Maybe a message board?

~Madame~

Madame Giry wrote:
Here's hoping that the dedicated people behind LSD will regroup and find another way to bring the group back. Maybe a message board?

There's already a new group forming at Facebook...with a snide name.

The whole taking down the LSD Facebook page just makes me think of ALW/RUG as petty and paranoid. And it got me thinking; how many people do each of us know "in real life" who have even heard of this sequel? I've only run across one person - one person - who had even heard it was going to happen. They didn't even know that it had already happened. I imagine LSD would have given them more publicity than they would have gotten on their own. Now, granted, I'm in the US, not the UK, so maybe that has something to do with it. But I think ALW thinks this show is a big deal, when really, it's not. It's going to be scoffed at while it's around, and have the same "long-lasting" memory in people's minds as Annie Warbucks, Grease 2, or Lestat.

Rebecca wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WRN-L8gRqFo

My response to the video: giggles!

My response to the song: Someone actually wrote that and wasn't too ashamed to let people hear it?

Okay, so there's some allegations floating around Facebook to the effect that Love Should Die was not the only anti-LND group to be shut down but that there were 'multiple' groups targeted that disappeared. I was only a member of Love Should Die so I can't tell if this is true. Is/was anyone else here a member of another anti-sequel group? Do those groups still exist?

This is important because if multiple groups were shut down that means either 1) there was a specific reason for RUG to target each of those groups, or 2) That RUG really did just go after groups that were opposed to the sequel.

Before we can speculate much further, we need to find out if indeed other anti-LND groups were pulled.

~Madame~

Hey everyone -

As per my previous post about contacting the media, I've already had a bite from a reporter!

They say the story is great and need more information. this is awesome! LOL.

Does anyone know the true administrator of the LSD FB page? If so media is calling! We need to chat. If it's you and want to keep your mask on and keep your privacy I understand. Send me a PM or email me. Your secret is safe with me. But we do need your help!

Also as mentioned in the previous post above, if anyone was part of the other groups against LNDs please let me know.

Cheers,
PhantomJT

Okay, this is what's going on facebook right now:

There is a re-upping of the original LSD page, but under new management.
There is a 'Paint Never Dries' page, too.
There is also a 'I'm Against ReallyUsefulGroup's Censorship and Violation of Free Speech'...

Seriously, I think LSD would be proud. It has done what it has needed to do - unite all the Phantom fans who support the original together.

There is also a forum, I think you should all join it too:

http://loveshoulddie.proboards.com/index.cgi

I would like to know where the allegations against RUG are comming from before deciding how to act in this personally. Is there anyone who has any evidence of them being behind closing LSD? I don't like to act on rumours going around the net and so far I haven't been able to find any sources that have convinced me that RUG is indeed behind this. Why would Facebook even care about ALW:s stupid show and the way he feels about protesters? Unless there was some copyright infringement of course, but they seemed to be quite on top of that over at LSD. Anyone who has any sources? I don't like to do what a certain journalist at the Daily Telegraph did the other week... Though, there is a journalistic saying going something along the lines of "don't check a good story in case it won't hold up" .

Getting the media involved could make this really backfire in RUG's faces. If they look too sensitive, it will only enhance the negative word of mouth and make that an even bigger story.

SenorSwanky wrote:Getting the media involved could make this really backfire in RUG's faces. If they look too sensitive, it will only enhance the negative word of mouth and make that an even bigger story.

I've been contacted by two reports so far who want to run a story. The reporter who wrote the 'mastermind' article featuring the person behind LSD is on board and mentioned she'd help us out. The other reporter is from the UK telegraph and they need some more info before they can 'legally' proceed.

I'll keep you all updated on the progress but I urge you all to still contact the media folks. We must disprove ALWs allegations that there were only 4 or 5 phans out there writing negative reviews. The more people who contact the media, the faster they will realize we are a close knit group and can re-band after being dismantled by the evil RUG!!!

SOLIDARITY!!!

Media is blogging about the removal of FB page already!

http://blogs.thestage.co.uk/shenton/2010/03/love-should-die-dies-a-sudden-death-whil/index.html

PhantomJT

Well done, Jeff--although I'm not sure if the writer was being snide when he presumed you and Rebecca were related or not.

Does anyone have a link to that review mentioned? Sounds like a good read...

On a completely unrelated note, I had to laugh at this bit:

Lloyd Webber presciently told me himself a year earlier, the musical genre itself “will continue to change in ways that neither you nor I can see at the moment. In the next year or two - and it sure as hell won’t be me - there will be some kind of musical or entertainment that is evolved on the internet.

I checked the referenced article; it's dated September 2008, two months after a certain Joss Whedon project was made public. Behind the game again, Wee Andy.

~LCD

LadyCDaae wrote:Well done, Jeff--although I'm not sure if the writer was being snide when he presumed you and Rebecca were related or not.

Does anyone have a link to that review mentioned? Sounds like a good read...

~LCD

Thanks LCD. I only hope other Phans will contact the press so the 'Timmons' family doesn't look so crazy being singled out - lol!

:::wink wink nudge nudge:::

PhantomJT

Slightly O/T but is anyone else having the problem of this thread coming up as being only 8 pages long?

On topic, bravo to everyone for their efforts. Have to admit we probably won't ever get the truth on what happened with the group but it does seem rather suspicious.