The Toronto Production

Callie Daae wrote:Does anybody have any articles talking about the Colm Wilkinson and Rebecca Caine feud????

I'm not aware of any. It's the subject more of rumors than actual reporting, and it's not something either have really talked about in public, I don't think. And since it's mostly if not entirely speculation, I don't think we ought to talk about it here.

SenorSwanky wrote:

Callie Daae wrote:Does anybody have any articles talking about the Colm Wilkinson and Rebecca Caine feud????

I don't think we ought to talk about it here.

With all due respect, you're entitled to your opinion. But until you're moderator, I don't think it's up to you to tell me what I should ask.

Callie Daae wrote:

SenorSwanky wrote:

Callie Daae wrote:Does anybody have any articles talking about the Colm Wilkinson and Rebecca Caine feud????

I don't think we ought to talk about it here.

With all due respect, you're entitled to your opinion. But until you're moderator, I don't think it's up to you to tell me what I should ask.

I didn't say what you can or can't ask. I simply said what I THINK is fair to discuss, considering that no one knows the truth about the matter but Caine and Wilkinson and their close associates (and even then, there are bound to be differing versions of events, as there are with any dispute), and considering that some current and former cast members read this board and other fan boards, and their personal matters probably aren't really what they want others discussing.

SenorSwanky wrote:

Callie Daae wrote:

SenorSwanky wrote:

Callie Daae wrote:Does anybody have any articles talking about the Colm Wilkinson and Rebecca Caine feud????

I don't think we ought to talk about it here.

With all due respect, you're entitled to your opinion. But until you're moderator, I don't think it's up to you to tell me what I should ask.

I didn't say what you can or can't ask. I simply said what I THINK is fair to discuss, considering that no one knows the truth about the matter but Caine and Wilkinson and their close associates (and even then, there are bound to be differing versions of events, as there are with any dispute), and considering that some current and former cast members read this board and other fan boards, and their personal matters probably aren't really what they want others discussing.

Ok well, I didn't say I wanted to discuss it. I just asked if anyone had any kind info they could send me on it.

Puts on her moderator hat for a moment. If I'm wrong Anea, please correct me.

I'll agree with Swanky that it's usually best to skip discussions etc on things involving the private lives of actors - (fights, love lives etc, Facebook photos not set to 'public' mode). Especially since it's not likely too many of us, if any actually know the facts. We don't want to become TMZ. Back on Phansonline we pretty much kept away from such topics. Who knows who's reading it?

Ok. Time to put my hat back on the shelf.

Back on topic.
Any favorite memories from the Toronto production?
For me it was my very first time seeing the show live. Ciaran Sheehan was my Phantom and the who spectacle was amazing. I had no idea about the wall of flames during the graveyard scene and nearly screamed from my third row seat. I was sure that some horrible thing had gone wrong and that I was now about to die. lol
Now it's a favorite part in the show because I love to turn to the audience just before the flames so I can catch their reactions. It can be quite amusing.

MasqPhan wrote:I had no idea about the wall of flames during the graveyard scene and nearly screamed from my third row seat. I was sure that some horrible thing had gone wrong and that I was now about to die. lol
Now it's a favorite part in the show because I love to turn to the audience just before the flames so I can catch their reactions. It can be quite amusing.

I can so relate to that. When I first saw it on B'way, I thought I knew what to expect in terms of special effects. But I was in the front row, one seat to the left of the conductor and...whoa...when those flames shot up...I felt like I jumped a few feet in the air and I'm sure I looked like

Ever since then, if I've seen the show from the first couple of rows, I've made a point of not warning newbies about the flames just so I can watch them jump. I feel a bit sadistic, but it's so fun.

I would have loved to see it in Toronto, but I was still pretty young when it was playing there. I live in the States and driving to Canada would only take about an hour or so from where I live. Does anyone know why it closed?

Callie Daae wrote:Does anyone know why it closed?

Declining sales and probably also the corruption and embezzlement at Livent.

SenorSwanky wrote:

Callie Daae wrote:Does anybody have any articles talking about the Colm Wilkinson and Rebecca Caine feud????

I'm not aware of any. It's the subject more of rumors than actual reporting, and it's not something either have really talked about in public, I don't think.

There were actually some rather juicy articles published about it back in the day in The Toronto Globe and Mail. That's all I'm saying though for reasons already stated.

The important thing is that Colm and Rebecca have now made it up. It's nice that they seem to be getting along nicely at that reunion party.

SenorSwanky wrote:

Callie Daae wrote:Does anyone know why it closed?

Declining sales and probably also the corruption and embezzlement at Livent.

Unfortunately, sales were pretty bad by the end...they were having a hard enough time trying to GIVE tickets away. During the last 2 years I became friends with Box Office Staff and they told me many stories of sales declining...LIVENT trying to give tickets away by the hundreds and no one was taking them. I saw many reports (as I was in the ticket industry a few years later) and saw their sales reports. It was awful.

On a positive note, for the last year I got to see the show as many times I wanted at no cost The only time I was required to pay was for the anniversary performances and final performance. The box office staff reserved a seat of my very own for EVERY performance: ORCH - AA20. It was the coolest thing ever...because at that point (11 years ago) I felt like I was a 'true' Phantom...having my own seat for every show empty for my use - LOL.

~PhantomJT

Wow, that's sad (for the production) and awesome (for you) at the same time. It's hard to imagine Phantom tickets going unwanted, as popular as the show is and as good a price as free is. Especially when it seems like Toronto had a love affair with the show and misses its presence in the economy and culture of the city.

SenorSwanky wrote:Wow, that's sad (for the production) and awesome (for you) at the same time. It's hard to imagine Phantom tickets going unwanted, as popular as the show is and as good a price as free is. Especially when it seems like Toronto had a love affair with the show and misses its presence in the economy and culture of the city.

There were times when I was in the audience and there were fewer than 200 people in the audience. It was sad. Around the 7th year they were always handing out coupons for 50% off tickets at major events around the Toronto area to get people to come back for more. It worked for me anyways - I came back another 20+ times....and then soon after I started to hang out with the staff...I was there every week sometimes..and I remember there was a whole week I saw the show - ever performance. Sadly, on the second to last night (Oct 30) I had tickets...but stayed in my hotel room...and cried... I didnt want it to end...

~PhantomJT

PhantomJT wrote:

SenorSwanky wrote:Wow, that's sad (for the production) and awesome (for you) at the same time. It's hard to imagine Phantom tickets going unwanted, as popular as the show is and as good a price as free is. Especially when it seems like Toronto had a love affair with the show and misses its presence in the economy and culture of the city.

There were times when I was in the audience and there were fewer than 200 people in the audience. It was sad. Around the 7th year they were always handing out coupons for 50% off tickets at major events around the Toronto area to get people to come back for more. It worked for me anyways - I came back another 20+ times....and then soon after I started to hang out with the staff...I was there every week sometimes..and I remember there was a whole week I saw the show - ever performance. Sadly, on the second to last night (Oct 30) I had tickets...but stayed in my hotel room...and cried... I didnt want it to end...

~PhantomJT

They really had some great, great deals back in the day, didn't they? And the exchange rate was really excellent back then (back when I lived in the US!), so it made it a really great place to visit. Plus, there was just something special about that production. Everyone involved was just so friendly and nice, and I always felt like they really went out of their way to treat the phans well and put together interesting and exciting events. I've seen other POTO productions I very much enjoyed (London was particularly nice) but I've never gotten that same 'home-y' feeling I got at the Pantages. Those were good times in the Phandom!

200 people? It's remarkable they ran for a few years after that. Did the poor attendance affect the performers?

I saw the show two days in a row when visiting Toronto in 1999. The audience numbers were shocking both performances - I looked twice to check I was in the right theatre. First show was very flat performance, and the lack of audience I would have said affected them - couldn't hear the applause with the low audience numbers spread around the theatre, as I was an international visitor I pre purchased tickets way before and the ushers wouldn't let you move to empty seats a little closer. Buying tickets on the internet wasn't as efficent back then in knowing where the seats were. Following night, same audience numbers but whole different atmsophere, cast felt they were electrically charged with boundless energy. Felt like a whole different production. I always put it down to I'd done my research to see two different men behind the mask on that trip, and I believe the cast fed off the performance energy of Peter Karrie on that second performance, he was scarily dangerous, at one stage I really thought he just might leap of the prosenium, I have never seen such a physical phantom.

Bonnie

I've always thought low numbers would hit an actor-- I know it's hit me in the past, but I personally feel it's up to the performers, their chemistry (especially when you have alternates, standbys, and about 500 understudies like Phantom does) and the sort of energy they put out. I mean, it's SO awesome when an audience has the energy there to begin with, but sometimes the actors have to give a little for an audience to really open up. I think an audience would have been much more open to someone like Peter Karrie versus an understudy. Hello Claire Moore for Sarah Brightman.

SenorSwanky wrote:200 people? It's remarkable they ran for a few years after that. Did the poor attendance affect the performers?

I do recall the performance was a little flat...but as a phan who saw the show many times at the point, I really got to see them have some 'fun' on stage. You and I both know to the untrained eye, you'd never catch silliness happening on stage....but to those who have seen the show several times...you'd catch it in an instance.

Having front row seats each performance I got to listen in on 'personal' conversations during the show...see actors play tricks on each other. Try to make the others fumble their lines...etc. I enjoyed it....but I do admit, not having the electric energy as they did on a full house did make a difference...the magic was dramatically different....

aussiephan wrote:I saw the show two days in a row when visiting Toronto in 1999. The audience numbers were shocking both performances - I looked twice to check I was in the right theatre. First show was very flat performance, and the lack of audience I would have said affected them - couldn't hear the applause with the low audience numbers spread around the theatre, as I was an international visitor I pre purchased tickets way before and the ushers wouldn't let you move to empty seats a little closer. Buying tickets on the internet wasn't as efficent back then in knowing where the seats were. Following night, same audience numbers but whole different atmsophere, cast felt they were electrically charged with boundless energy. Felt like a whole different production. I always put it down to I'd done my research to see two different men behind the mask on that trip, and I believe the cast fed off the performance energy of Peter Karrie on that second performance, he was scarily dangerous, at one stage I really thought he just might leap of the prosenium, I have never seen such a physical phantom.
Bonnie

Peter was my favourite - hands down! I think you hit the nail on this one - he was VERY physical and always was a spectacle to watch each and every performance. He did have lots of fun up on the proscenium...and I too thought he may jump out at one point. There are many funny stories with his performances too...like the time when he was sitting in the angel waiting for AIAOY to finish...he received a cell phone call...and his cell was in his pants pocket....(and he took the call!). Or the time when after "Down Once More" he ran to the bathroom...and ran back on stage just in time to put the veil on Christine...only to have a piece of toilet paper trailing from his shoe - CLASSIC! However, I think the BEST story was when he lost his train of thought...and started to make up lyrics while singing, "Seal my fate to night"....This was his famous "Ducks Warning In Because The Music's on Fire!" song! When the show finally closed, I found a copy of the audio board recording in the trash from the theatre and couldnt believe it myself! I had heard the story from many people....but held the actual recording in my hands - LOL!

~PhantomJT

I've heard the infamous "ducks warring in" audio, which is hilarious, but hadn't heard the other two stories. Amazing. What a fantastic Phantom, though. Wish I had been lucky enough to have seen him.

aussiephan wrote:I saw the show two days in a row when visiting Toronto in 1999. (....) I always put it down to I'd done my research to see two different men behind the mask on that trip, and I believe the cast fed off the performance energy of Peter Karrie on that second performance, he was scarily dangerous, at one stage I really thought he just might leap of the prosenium, I have never seen such a physical phantom.

Bonnie

What was the name of the other Phantom you saw?

David Rodgers - in my diary I have written he was a good impatient finger drummer on the chair, the merchandise was the best I'd ever seen in a phantom shop up to that date, the flairs the hottest and The Pantages a beautiful old world theatre.

Bonnie

aussiephan wrote:David Rodgers - in my diary I have written he was a good impatient finger drummer on the chair, the merchandise was the best I'd ever seen in a phantom shop up to that date, the flairs the hottest and The Pantages a beautiful old world theatre.

Bonnie

David Rogers was the regular Raoul in the Toronto cast...and I had a chance to see him perform as Phantom during the final week. He was okay. I did like some of his nuances (drumming finger), but his singing style was too light and fluffy for my liking.

~PhantomJT~

PhantomJT wrote:

aussiephan wrote:David Rodgers - in my diary I have written he was a good impatient finger drummer on the chair, the merchandise was the best I'd ever seen in a phantom shop up to that date, the flairs the hottest and The Pantages a beautiful old world theatre.

Bonnie

David Rogers was the regular Raoul in the Toronto cast...and I had a chance to see him perform as Phantom during the final week. He was okay. I did like some of his nuances (drumming finger), but his singing style was too light and fluffy for my liking.

~PhantomJT~

I had the opportunity to see David Rogers as the Phantom as well, and to be honest I preferred his performance as the Phantom to his performance as Raoul. He always seemed like such a wooden Raoul, especially as compared to Laird Mackintosh, who I really, really liked. Probably the best Raoul I've ever seen, and sooo nice to all the phans!

PhantomJT wrote:Peter was my favourite - hands down! I think you hit the nail on this one - he was VERY physical and always was a spectacle to watch each and every performance.

Peter was my number 1 favourite for a very long time. I consider myself fortunate to have seen him perform as many times as I did. He was really passionate, physical, and engaging. He also (as I'm fairly certain most would agree) had a very unique way of singing. Different, but yet somehow appropriate. He was also tremendously nice and always made me feel really welcome. I remember being pulled from 'Rat Alley' in the freezing cold, where I'd been waiting to see him, and brought down to his dressing room - before all the other folks at the stage door - even though he was still finishing up getting ready to go out. I'd been there a lot, and I guess the Pantages crew recognized me and didn't want me freezing my toes off! Peter was so super nice, and made me feel really welcome and special. Which he did every time I met him, and I think a lot of phans would agree. He was awesome!

On the heels of that statement I now feel embarrassed to admit that Earl Carpenter (who we saw about 20+ times in London) is my fave, and Peter my 2nd. Not that that's bad! I've seen 20 Phantoms live, so that's no small compliment!! In fact (even more embarrassed now) I never even met Earl! We usually had to attend Tuesday matinees, as it was the only performance that didn't conflict with the schedule of the theatre where we worked. I wish I'd made a more concerted effort to meet him at the few evening performances we were able to catch when we lived there. I just loved his interpretation. The first time I saw him, I though he was just so unique! I was pretty much speechless and breathless after the first time I saw him perform! It affected me almost as much as the very first time I saw the show. His final lair never failed to bring tears to my eyes. He was also a very pretty Phantom, if you know what I mean... (I love you Jeff! ) I was in England on my own (helping out with a project for a charity foundation Jeff and I are involved with) and I'd gone to the show with a few of the London phans. I remember calling Jeff afterwards and gushing on and on about how amazing it was! That was just after they updated some of the backtracks and pumped up the sound system as well. Wow, I'm totally not talking about Toronto anymore, and I'm rambling... done now!

This random but I've have the Orignal Toronto cast program & watched videos, one thing that I've noticed is that some of the Hannibal Slave Girls don't where crowns and some do. Which I thought was odd. Was it like that through all of years that it was playing there????

Rebecca and Jeff, I love reading about your Toronto experiences! Wonderful, wonderful.

(and Rebecca, I agree re: Earl Carpenter. Amazing Phantom. I'm sad you never got to meet him)

okay, so poking through the old videos (the behind the mask canadian company version) and some of the videos of when the tour came through (including the vid of Rebecca and Jeff being interviewed on breakfast television the morning a few days before tickets went on sale), it's a very bad case of you don't know what you have until it's gone. Toronto needs to hurry up and get Phantom back. Fast.

Dear Mirvish:
kick out sound of music and put phantom back.
-Kearyn

Christine's Shadow wrote:okay, so poking through the old videos (the behind the mask canadian company version) and some of the videos of when the tour came through (including the vid of Rebecca and Jeff being interviewed on breakfast television the morning a few days before tickets went on sale), it's a very bad case of you don't know what you have until it's gone. Toronto needs to hurry up and get Phantom back. Fast.

Dear Mirvish:
kick out sound of music and put phantom back.
-Kearyn

Agreed!! We walked past the Pantages last night and shook our fists at the 'Canon' signs. We miss you Phantom! Personally, I'd love to see the tour back in it's old home next time. The POW is nice, but Phantom belongs at the Pantages (in my very humble opinion anyway....)

I've probably asked this a 100 times before, but whatever happened to the Canadian POTO costumes?

I know a few pieces were dumped/gives away, but that the major lot was shipped to Mexico for the production there. But it doesn't seemed they used any of it, apart from some in a promo stunt and a backdrape for the Wishing gown. Why? And where did the costumes go? The Canadian costumes has a distinctive style, and I can't say I've spotted any of them in newer productions. Are they still stored somewhere?


Aaaaagh, I need to know!

Rebecca wrote:

Christine's Shadow wrote:okay, so poking through the old videos (the behind the mask canadian company version) and some of the videos of when the tour came through (including the vid of Rebecca and Jeff being interviewed on breakfast television the morning a few days before tickets went on sale), it's a very bad case of you don't know what you have until it's gone. Toronto needs to hurry up and get Phantom back. Fast.

Dear Mirvish:
kick out sound of music and put phantom back.
-Kearyn

Agreed!! We walked past the Pantages last night and shook our fists at the 'Canon' signs. We miss you Phantom! Personally, I'd love to see the tour back in it's old home next time. The POW is nice, but Phantom belongs at the Pantages (in my very humble opinion anyway....)

this is true. The only reason Mirvish put Phantom in PoW was because WWRY was still there and also booked for several other shows. I would have LOVED to have seen Phantom in it's original home. I'm pretty sure most of the stage is still the same (trapdoors and such, so i've been told from some of the WWRY actors). I'm just trying to remember what else was going on at the Canon during that season (I still have the massive fold out from the Star).

ETA So according to Broadway World Phantom was SUPPOSED to be in the canon/pantages, but that could have been a general misprint. otherwise I think I'm still sticking to the WWRY idea. (god, that theatre got messy after that show)

operafantomet wrote:I've probably asked this a 100 times before, but whatever happened to the Canadian POTO costumes?

I know a few pieces were dumped/gives away, but that the major lot was shipped to Mexico for the production there. But it doesn't seemed they used any of it, apart from some in a promo stunt and a backdrape for the Wishing gown. Why? And where did the costumes go? The Canadian costumes has a distinctive style, and I can't say I've spotted any of them in newer productions. Are they still stored somewhere?


Aaaaagh, I need to know!

what I would pay to find out where those costumes went. My thoughts maybe they were sent to a warehouse? I'm thinking what the Stratford Shakespeare Festival does. They have 14 (now 13 as of late) massive shows and as soon as the show is over they send the costumes to a massive warehouse (the props are destroyed and recycled for the next year's festival save one important prop per show. in Midsummer night's dream it's always Bottom's donkey head). It beats me if they're ever used again, I know the Shakespeare school uses bits and pieces (I wore one of the COOLEST cloaks ever during the show, but I digress). So maybe the costumes were shipped to a warehouse for safekeeping? just because the designs were different. so archival purposes? I guess we can only speculate at this point.

operafantomet wrote:I've probably asked this a 100 times before, but whatever happened to the Canadian POTO costumes?

I know a few pieces were dumped/gives away, but that the major lot was shipped to Mexico for the production there. But it doesn't seemed they used any of it, apart from some in a promo stunt and a backdrape for the Wishing gown. Why? And where did the costumes go? The Canadian costumes has a distinctive style, and I can't say I've spotted any of them in newer productions. Are they still stored somewhere?


Aaaaagh, I need to know!

I'm not entirely certain what happened to the costumes and pieces that were shipped to Mexico. It does seem very odd to ship them there for use in promos, but not in the production. I can understand why they'd like to have their own costumes with their own look, as most countries do... though re-using the (very lovely) Canadian costumes would've saved a bundle of money. I am aware of a warehouse in Pennsylvania that stores a great deal of POTO set pieces, props, costumes, etc., when they are not in use. One of our phriends had the opportunity to visit a few years back, and shared a few snapshots of himself standing with different pieces covered in protective covering and whatnot. I believe the pieces are pulled into action should something in one of the other productions break. Much of it is left over from the time when there were 2 US touring companies, but I imagine some of the Canadian items may have been sent there for storage as well. It was difficult to tell from the photos. And before anyone asks, I'm afraid we don't have copies of the photos. He showed them to us in person when we visited him in NYC, so I guess you'll just have to take my word for it. I kind of wish we had copies, 'cause it would be nice to get other phans opinions on what's what!

Other than that (and that is only an educated guess), as you stated, many of the pieces were either given away or sold at auction. I know a few phans who scored some lovely pieces at the charity auctions following the closing. I also know a few cast members who were able to take home pieces of their costumes. And of course there were a few items that were simply thrown out. Jeff managed to save a lot of the items, but I'm sure it wasn't everything. Although he was pretty thorough in his 'dumpster diving'. He returned every day for a week, I think, picking through things, sometimes with other phans, sometimes not... despite the pouring rain. He got really sick after that! Apparently his and the other phans antics were all caught on security camera and the cast had a good laugh at it at a get together after the closing.... That's my Jeffrey