Re: 25th anniversary celebrations

operafantomet Sat Oct 08, 2011 2:08 pm

Meeeeh, I protest on that by showing my eventual dislike still. I loved most of the concert, just so we have that clear, but there were still things which majorly ticked me off. It's my prerogative to express that when I feel the situation calls for it. I've been called a hater on a regular basis lately, or so it feels, but the hater label has been used so much it's lost its effect on me.

I tend to stay out of the worst phan girl places, though. As some others have said, it's quite a comfort to come here and hang with you guys. For the most the discussion is way more... adult... Though I don't always agree with the various opinions, at least I can say so and we can still be cool. Sometimes we disagree, sometimes we agree, either way the main thing is that we dig Phantom of the Opera.

Those who disagree on that are such HATERS!! Laughing

Viscountess, weren't the random white-dressed guy in Masquerade that star dancer playing the featured Slave Master in Hannibal? I think Lynne had made a special choreography for him in Masquerade too, but it was kinda lost in the chaos and/or video editing.

ML6 Sat Oct 08, 2011 2:29 pm

starryeyed wrote:I've seen a lot of that lately too. "It's not about the actors or their performances it's about the show!" they all seem to cry.

I just don't get that logic at all. I bet if their precious Ramin or precious Hadley or precious Sierra (sorry but these people tend to majorly love this trio) weren't in the concert and it was another trio they'd find it perfectly acceptable to criticize.

Teehee.

Double standard, there.

starryeyed Sat Oct 08, 2011 2:39 pm

The random dude in white was the star dancer "Sergei" who seemed to randomly find his way, a lot of the time, into the little group of Carlotta, Piangi, Meg etc. That annoyed me actually, to have his role so hyped up, extra bits added in and to demote the wonderful Simon Rackley, who does a fantastic job at Her Majesty's to some bit part in the Il Muto ballet!

Phew. Sorry about that, but I've often commented on the little quirks Simon throws into his (albeit pretty small) role on a daily basis. He has also never had a sick day in the time he has been with Phantom and I really was hoping he would get to dance the part in the concert.

LadyCDaae Sat Oct 08, 2011 3:18 pm

I tend to stay out of the worst phan girl places, though. As some others have said, it's quite a comfort to come here and hang with you guys. For the most the discussion is way more... adult... Though I don't always agree with the various opinions, at least I can say so and we can still be cool. Sometimes we disagree, sometimes we agree, either way the main thing is that we dig Phantom of the Opera.

I'll (non-alcoholic) drink to that, Anea. This is my favorite PotO forum, because the people are so knowledgeable and opinions are so well thought-out and stated that it makes for delightful conversation. That is so rare on the Internet and IRL, I've found.

It may not have come across very well in my very nit-picky review, but I didn't hate the production either--parts of it did work very well, and I certainly wouldn't consider the DVD a disgrace to my collection as I might, say, the 2004 movie or the Sequel Which Does Not Exist. It's just...well, it's kind of like getting a decent hamburger, when you wanted a gourmet steak dinner with all the trimmings. It's not bad, it's just not the feast you'd hoped for.

Also, that picture of Fraser is perhaps the most brutally and hilariously accurate assessment of a performance since the similar "Sarah Brightman as Christine" cartoon from years back. Laughing

~LCD

Madame Giry Sat Oct 08, 2011 3:51 pm

ML6 wrote:I don't understand a lot of people lately, apparently because this is an anniversary concert we cannot show our distaste towards the actors or the overall performance.

What a load of sh-..gibberish! Wink

While I am more than thankful that after 25 years Phantom finally got a lavish and spectacular event, and I very much enjoyed watching it, there is no reason on earth why I shouldn't be allowed to express my disagreement with casting, acting, and design choices. It's a show; a fancy show, to be sure, but it is not some sacred trust that is unassailable and unimpeachable.

I mean, what's the justification? Is this mentality going to extend to every time I go to see the show? Should I simply be thankful that the show still exists and not criticize any aspect of it? What utter folly!

That being said, after *cough* taking another look at the show I noticed that in the aftermath of Point of No Return Hadley!Raoul actually forcibly pounces on the Marksman and shoves his arm upwards so that the bullet doesn't hit Christine. Honestly, I can't remember if Raoul does this in the regular shows (how terrible a phan am I?), but that gesture, while incongruous with Hadley's generally otherwise unappealing interpretation, lends a small bit of redemption for the role in the RAH Anniversary in my eyes.

~Madame~

Miss von Krolock Sat Oct 08, 2011 3:59 pm

See, this whole thing with Hadley Fraser puzzles me. Having seen him as Marius in Les Mis, I was expecting him to be a great Raoul, as he looks the part and has a very good voice. Sadly I was disappointed with his performance (no issues on the vocals, just the acting), but I refuse to put all the blame on him, since it looks more like he was directed to play the character like that. And even if he wasn't, if the director/big bosses weren't satisfied with his take on the role, they should have corrected him or chosen someone else.

Needless to say though, I still preferred they had chosen someone with a previous experience in the show. Michael Xavier is still my favourite Raoul of those I've seen and since he's had a few leadroles in the West End in recent years, I had really hoped it would be him.

**Raphael** Sat Oct 08, 2011 4:08 pm

Madame Giry wrote:I mean, what's the justification? Is this mentality going to extend to every time I go to see the show? Should I simply be thankful that the show still exists and not criticize any aspect of it? What utter folly!

Sadly, we're living in a "my way or the highway" world mentality, now. If you don't go in lockstep with someone's opinion (no matter how insane), you're considered anti-whatever.

That being said, after *cough* taking another look at the show I noticed that in the aftermath of Point of No Return Hadley!Raoul actually forcibly pounces on the Marksman and shoves his arm upwards so that the bullet doesn't hit Christine. Honestly, I can't remember if Raoul does this in the regular shows (how terrible a phan am I?), but that gesture, while incongruous with Hadley's generally otherwise unappealing interpretation, lends a small bit of redemption for the role in the RAH Anniversary in my eyes.

Yeah, I always see Raouls do that in the regular show. Did anyone else notice that in Mme Giry's confession, he dropped "Christine" from his "My God, Christine" line?

Oh, and LCD, I read your review and thought it was awesome! You even covered some things that bothered me but neglected to mention in my own review.

TAFKaR

**Raphael** Sat Oct 08, 2011 4:15 pm

Miss von Krolock wrote:See, this whole thing with Hadley Fraser puzzles me. Having seen him as Marius in Les Mis, I was expecting him to be a great Raoul, as he looks the part and has a very good voice. Sadly I was disappointed with his performance (no issues on the vocals, just the acting), but I refuse to put all the blame on him, since it looks more like he was directed to play the character like that. And even if he wasn't, if the director/big bosses weren't satisfied with his take on the role, they should have corrected him or chosen someone else.

Needless to say though, I still preferred they had chosen someone with a previous experience in the show. Michael Xavier is still my favourite Raoul of those I've seen and since he's had a few leadroles in the West End in recent years, I had really hoped it would be him.

I've never seen Fraser in anything before, but that's why I put that statement in my review that I felt his interpretation may have been less his choice than the director's and ALW's and one that may have been set in stone from the beginning - which may have been why they needed someone without any previous experience playing Raoul - they needed someone who was a blank slate and wouldn't resist their insistence that the character be played a certain way.

That's not to say that if I ever saw Fraser's Raoul walking down the street that I wouldn't order my fine horses to trample him to death, but that's not on the actor, that's just the seething hatred I have for that interpretation of the character.

TAFKaR

Viscountess Sat Oct 08, 2011 4:41 pm

operafantomet wrote:Viscountess, weren't the random white-dressed guy in Masquerade that star dancer playing the featured Slave Master in Hannibal? I think Lynne had made a special choreography for him in Masquerade too, but it was kinda lost in the chaos and/or video editing.

You may be right. I just remember paying attention to the Masquerade to see how they would dress such a big cast (basically the three sets of little bands and doubles of all the other costumes) and then I saw the guy in white and he just stood out so glaringly... I must confess that he stuck in my mind because I thought it was a homage of sorts to the voguing guy in the movie!Masquerade and I did not like it one bit...

Viscountess Sat Oct 08, 2011 4:46 pm

operafantomet wrote:I tend to stay out of the worst phan girl places, though. As some others have said, it's quite a comfort to come here and hang with you guys. For the most the discussion is way more... adult... Though I don't always agree with the various opinions, at least I can say so and we can still be cool. Sometimes we disagree, sometimes we agree, either way the main thing is that we dig Phantom of the Opera.

Those who disagree on that are such HATERS!!

Hehe, one of my reasons DP is my Phantom forum of choice these days! I've been dying to discuss the concert with other phans, but damned if I step foot anywhere overrun by phangirls ~~and nutjobs.~~

Miss von Krolock wrote:See, this whole thing with Hadley Fraser puzzles me. Having seen him as Marius in Les Mis, I was expecting him to be a great Raoul, as he looks the part and has a very good voice. Sadly I was disappointed with his performance (no issues on the vocals, just the acting), but I refuse to put all the blame on him, since it looks more like he was directed to play the character like that. And even if he wasn't, if the director/big bosses weren't satisfied with his take on the role, they should have corrected him or chosen someone else.

I'm very inclined to agree, though I've only seen him as Grantaire, but he seems like the type of actor to really flesh out the role and make it very three-dimensional and yet his portrayal of Raoul just didn't seem right. I really do feel like it was more in what the directors wanted than him though, especially with that prevelant LND slant.

PhantomsGhost Sat Oct 08, 2011 5:51 pm

Viscountess wrote:
Miss von Krolock wrote:See, this whole thing with Hadley Fraser puzzles me. Having seen him as Marius in Les Mis, I was expecting him to be a great Raoul, as he looks the part and has a very good voice. Sadly I was disappointed with his performance (no issues on the vocals, just the acting), but I refuse to put all the blame on him, since it looks more like he was directed to play the character like that. And even if he wasn't, if the director/big bosses weren't satisfied with his take on the role, they should have corrected him or chosen someone else.
I'm very inclined to agree, though I've only seen him as Grantaire, but he seems like the type of actor to really flesh out the role and make it very three-dimensional and yet his portrayal of Raoul just didn't seem right. I really do feel like it was more in what the directors wanted than him though, especially with that prevelant LND slant.

I listened to the podcast of AllThingsPhantom the other day with Peter Karrie. One thing he said stood out with me that since Hal Prince is much older nowadays he sends out younger directors to look at the shows. These guys/gals want to put their 'stamp' on the show so they make changes that weren't there originally. (ie Autistic Phantom. I don't know if that was Ramin's idea or a director's).

I also think ALW is sticking his hand in many changes, as well. Watching the preview show at the concert there were some things Hal Prince said which also stuck with me. He didn't go to Sydmonton. He only watched the tape. It was more camp than romantic. Hal didn't like that. He wanted it more romantic (I don't care what ALW says. The way it originally was was campy, rocky, I'm convinced that Prince and maybe Mackintosh forced ALW's hand to go the serious, more romantic way). So ALW wants this to be completely his now be damned anyone else who worked on it. I really don't know why Prince wasn't at the 25th anniversary. He should have been. I know he said he was working on a show right now, but someone said, either here, Tumblr, or somewhere else I read that Prince was NOT at the screening on Sunday with the Broadway cast. I wonder if there wasn't a falling out somewhere with Prince and Webber. The 25th was somewhat re-imagined and not Prince's direction, so why would he want to show up to something he didn't have a hand in?

For the most part, IMHO I believe the original show is perfect. They had the right creative people at the right time to come together and come up with something that worked, and has worked for 25 years. Remove any one of those creative people at the beginning of the collaboration and the show probably wouldn't have lasted. Will a newly re-imagined version work? I don't know. The original one is so engrained in people's minds, the iconic Phantom look, the production photos out there that to make a change in any of it will take people a long time to get used to. Even the movie!Phantom look which was quite popular for a few years has been sidelined for the musical!Phantom look, again (thank God)

Scorp Sat Oct 08, 2011 6:27 pm

If Hadley was directed to make his Raoul so dislikeable by Mr Connor, then I am dreading what will happen in the new production that's going to tour the UK. That said, however, I hear a rumour that the Raoul in that production MAY be Simon Bailey. If so, then I have hope, as Mr Bailey over time became one of the finest Raouls I've ever seen in the London production.

I would also like to join the toast for articulate and intelligent discussion, informed opinions substantiated with examples, well-constructed arguments, mature behaviour and non-fanaticism and an avoidance of unadulterated, unqualified and non-credible fawning adulation. Alas, it seems DP is the only place that this can take place these days without a pointless flame war occurring. Seriously, the minute the 'hater' word gets rolled out, all it means is that the other side has no decent response to what you're arguing. I'd rather be a so-called "hater" than a blind sycophant any day.

operafantomet Sat Oct 08, 2011 6:43 pm

I really don't know why Prince wasn't at the 25th anniversary. He should have been. I know he said he was working on a show right now, but someone said, either here, Tumblr, or somewhere else I read that Prince was NOT at the screening on Sunday with the Broadway cast.

I dunno, I also hoped/expected him to be at one of the events. But on the other hand, he IS busy directing a Broadway show which is a tribute to his career (Prince of Broadway). I think they're putting the very last touches on it these days. So he was genuinely busy.
http://www.playbill.com/news/article/151997-Prince-of-Broadway-Musical-Will-Celebrate-Hit-Shows-and-Songs-in-Harold-Princes-Career

For all we know, he might have a deal with a private screening, getting the direct satellite signals to his home or similar. Or getting a preliminary copy of the DVD a few days later. I don't think he's NOT to see it, though he wasn't at the concert itself.

But I also think it speaks in big volumes that he did personally attend the private farewell party for George Lee Andrews at The Majestic some weeks back. Not sure he agreed with the cast decision made there.

TheFinnishPhantom Sat Oct 08, 2011 7:03 pm

Well, at last they'll start screening here aswell.

http://www.finnkino.fi/News/Elokuvauutisia/2011-10-07/1775/The-Phantom-of-the-Operan-25-vuotisjuhlanaytos/

Mandrake Sat Oct 08, 2011 9:34 pm

Nothing really from tonight's show in London.

JOJ as great as ever.

Phillip Griffiths as Andre.

That's about it, no speeches or cakes.

operafantomet Sat Oct 08, 2011 9:41 pm

Mandrake wrote:Nothing really from tonight's show in London.

JOJ as great as ever.

Phillip Griffiths as Andre.

That's about it, no speeches or cakes.

Whaaaaaat??!? 25 years in the same venue, and they don't even pop the champagne? I know tomorrow technically is the big day, but since Sunday is dark in the West End I expected the Saturday evening performance to be the one. So RAh was it, I guess.

But.... but.... It's not right!

Miss von Krolock Sat Oct 08, 2011 9:51 pm

Scorp wrote:I would also like to join the toast for articulate and intelligent discussion, informed opinions substantiated with examples, well-constructed arguments, mature behaviour and non-fanaticism and an avoidance of unadulterated, unqualified and non-credible fawning adulation. Alas, it seems DP is the only place that this can take place these days without a pointless flame war occurring. Seriously, the minute the 'hater' word gets rolled out, all it means is that the other side has no decent response to what you're arguing. I'd rather be a so-called "hater" than a blind sycophant any day.

Virtual group hug then, anyone? Laughing

operafantomet Sat Oct 08, 2011 9:54 pm

Miss von Krolock wrote:
Scorp wrote:I would also like to join the toast for articulate and intelligent discussion, informed opinions substantiated with examples, well-constructed arguments, mature behaviour and non-fanaticism and an avoidance of unadulterated, unqualified and non-credible fawning adulation. Alas, it seems DP is the only place that this can take place these days without a pointless flame war occurring. Seriously, the minute the 'hater' word gets rolled out, all it means is that the other side has no decent response to what you're arguing. I'd rather be a so-called "hater" than a blind sycophant any day.
Virtual group hug then, anyone?

25th anniversary celebrations - Page 19 Teletubbies+hug

ML6 Sat Oct 08, 2011 10:44 pm

operafantomet wrote:
Miss von Krolock wrote:
Scorp wrote:I would also like to join the toast for articulate and intelligent discussion, informed opinions substantiated with examples, well-constructed arguments, mature behaviour and non-fanaticism and an avoidance of unadulterated, unqualified and non-credible fawning adulation. Alas, it seems DP is the only place that this can take place these days without a pointless flame war occurring. Seriously, the minute the 'hater' word gets rolled out, all it means is that the other side has no decent response to what you're arguing. I'd rather be a so-called "hater" than a blind sycophant any day.
Virtual group hug then, anyone?

Oh Anea! How... disturbingly cute. Smile

Miss von Krolock Sat Oct 08, 2011 11:08 pm

HAHAHAHAH

Becky Sun Oct 09, 2011 2:21 pm

*Pokes out of lurkdom for hug*

Mandrake Mon Oct 10, 2011 1:00 pm

operafantomet wrote:
But.... but.... It's not right!

I agree!

It would have been nice for the anniversary to at least have been acknowledged... Maybe something will be said tonight (doubt it though!).

starryeyed Mon Oct 10, 2011 3:23 pm

It wasn't acknowledged last year either remember! They made the big celebration about the 10,000th show and made no reference to the 24th anniversary a few weeks earlier.

operafantomet Mon Oct 10, 2011 3:28 pm

So ya like the Teletubbies, do ya? Laughing

Mandrake, I agree. I really hope they'll say something tonight. I think HMT as a venue should be celebrated, not just the musical. I also think it would be nice to recognize the success of the actual, original London production.

I can kinda see why the 24th anniversary wasn't celebrated when the 10,000 performance was so close. But 25 years! That's.... silver in wedding anniversary language. It's huge. And no other milestone events was close this time. Yes, I know the RAH event was da shit. But the original venue, the original production... It does deserve some champagne.

Helen Mon Oct 10, 2011 11:24 pm

starryeyed wrote:It wasn't acknowledged last year either remember! They made the big celebration about the 10,000th show and made no reference to the 24th anniversary a few weeks earlier.

Although there wasn't a speech after the 24th anniversary performance, it was acknowledged in the pre-show announcement. They said something along the lines of "welcome to Her Majesty's theatre for the 24th anniversary performance of TPOTO."

ETA: Did anything happen tonight? It seems a bit strange they wouldn't mark the anniversary at HM's. I was at the actual anniversary performance of Les Mis last year, and the guy who played Javert made a short speech and everyone sang "happy birthday."

**Raphael** Wed Oct 12, 2011 12:37 am

Scorp wrote:I would also like to join the toast for articulate and intelligent discussion, informed opinions substantiated with examples, well-constructed arguments, mature behaviour and non-fanaticism and an avoidance of unadulterated, unqualified and non-credible fawning adulation.

As long as I can still salivate over Apple!Porn and call Fraser's Raoul a *expletive deleted* *expletive deleted* *expletive deleted* who can suck a *expletive deleted* *expletive deleted* *expletive deleted* while Gerard Butler *expletive deleted* a *expletive deleted* *expletive deleted* on a donkey, then I'll be sound as a pound Smile

TAFKaR

**Raphael** Wed Oct 12, 2011 12:57 pm

The "Hidden Plotters" have taken their hand to the 25th Anniversary performance.

I'd link but apparently my fingers refuse to allow me to share the batsh!t crazy virus.

TAFKaR

TheFinnishPhantom Wed Oct 12, 2011 1:21 pm

Raphael wrote:The "Hidden Plotters" have taken their hand to the 25th Anniversary performance.

I'd link but apparently my fingers refuse to allow me to share the batsh!t crazy virus.

TAFKaR

Let me see, let me see! >:d

PhantomsGhost Wed Oct 12, 2011 1:24 pm

I saw that last night. Debated posting about it, but didn't want to sully this forum. Very Happy

I'll stick with reading about it on Phanwank on Livejournal and laugh as they tear apart the hidden plot...

And then silently scream to myself as they (the hidden plot people) try to figure out the E/C symbolism of the proscenium Angel piece..and figure out who created it. *headslap*

Madame Giry Wed Oct 12, 2011 2:13 pm

Oh *censored*, you can't be serious... Mad

Mods, I know it's not in your nature to discriminate against other points of view, but if any of these Phantom conspiracy theorist nutjobs show up in this forum, can they be summarily banned? Pretty please? *Wink* Laughing

And I know I'm preaching to the choir, but it's not as if Maria Bjornson's La Victoire Ailee hasn't been around for oh, TWENTY-FIVE YEARS or anything. Proof positive that these people know nothing about the show's history. *sigh*

~Madame~

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