Re: The 2004 movie (ALW version)

Scorp Fri Aug 13, 2010 10:19 am

IamErik771 wrote:
operafantomet wrote:As far as I was told, yes. Apparently the French considered the Canadian dub clumsy, and changed a lot of it for the new version. Was this the reason some of the singers were changed too? Don't remember if it was Raoul or the Phantom, or both.

I'm not sure if that was the reason, but the actor for Raoul was changed -- it was Fabian Richard in the Canadian dub, and Damien Sargue in the French. The Phantom actor (Laurent Ban) did both, but I think I read somewhere that they also recast Meg. She was dubbed by Julie Victor in the Canadian version, but I have no idea who did the French dub if the role was, indeed, recast.

I think that was the reason -- the French distributor didn't like the original French dub which was intended to be used for all French-speaking countries and it's not hard to see why.

The two dubs differ enormously in terms of the lyrics, but I don't like either of them. The Canadian one has a few imaginative lines, but a lot of it is just downright silly (e.g. 'You just need more sleep, Christine, what you're saying sounds mad' Laughing

), while the French dub is strictly more accurate in terms of translation, but it is incredibly boring and has no ounce of creativity in it. Hardly anything in it rhymes either and the stresses are not in the right places at all. I find both dubs frankly unlistenable, which is a shame, because I'd love to have a great recording of Phantom in the language of the story.

**Raphael** Fri Aug 13, 2010 4:17 pm

I love the sound of the French language, so I do enjoy listening to the one I have for the most part, even if I don't have a clue what the lyrics are translating into.

What do you think of the Robert Marien lyrics for PotO and MotN, Scorp? Those any better?

R.

Scorp Fri Aug 13, 2010 7:59 pm

Raphael wrote:I love the sound of the French language, so I do enjoy listening to the one I have for the most part, even if I don't have a clue what the lyrics are translating into.

What do you think of the Robert Marien lyrics for PotO and MotN, Scorp? Those any better?

R.

Maybe it's just me but pleasant though some of the voices are, I find them way too poppy for Phantom. Just nothing about either of the dubs feels right. I don't like the film orchestra either. *shrug*

I prefer Marien's lyrics. I can't quite remember what his MotN ones were like so I'll need to give that another listen but I remember liking them. I don't think it's that difficult to do a good job of translating that song; for some reason I find translating the title song into French a far harder task (I've even tried myself and am not content with the results!). I don't think anyone's got it right yet. Marien comes close but even his version has bits about it that I don't like. I love his rendition of that song though and love the orchestrations...they sound suitably menacing.

**Raphael** Fri Aug 13, 2010 9:47 pm

Scorp wrote:Maybe it's just me but pleasant though some of the voices are, I find them way too poppy for Phantom. Just nothing about either of the dubs feels right. I don't like the film orchestra either. *shrug*

I think that could be greatly due to the requirement that the dubbed vocals be reminiscent of the original vocals supplied by the actors. It's been awhile since I listened to it, but I think the Spanish-language soundtrack - featuring performers from the Madrid stage production - even suffered in quality since they had to sink to Butler/Rossum level of singing.

R.

LisaL Tue Aug 31, 2010 11:06 pm

I am not a hugh fan of the movie, due to the lack of singing abilits of Gerard Butler and THAT singer, but if you where to cast the Phantom of the Opera who would you cast?? Also remember the director is stating that the cast have to be youngish!!
I am not sure who I would cast but I think Ewan Mcgregor would have to be in there not sure as The Phantom or Raoul but I do think Patrick Wilson did do a great job as Raoul but I hate his hair!!!
Any way let me know your thoughts!

mauerite#5 Mon Sep 13, 2010 3:29 pm

LisaL wrote:I am not a hugh fan of the movie, due to the lack of singing abilits of Gerard Butler and THAT singer, but if you where to cast the Phantom of the Opera who would you cast?? Also remember the director is stating that the cast have to be youngish!!
I am not sure who I would cast but I think Ewan Mcgregor would have to be in there not sure as The Phantom or Raoul but I do think Patrick Wilson did do a great job as Raoul but I hate his hair!!!
Any way let me know your thoughts!

Well the cast ad to be younger in the movie because it's harder to mask age on screen like you can on stage. One of the major differences between stage and film, which is why I respect stage actors so much more than movie actors, is that stage actors can get away with just rolling their eyes or making a face whereas stage actors must make gestures and actually act to implicate the same emotion that on film they can simply raise an eyebrow to convey.

I do think Patrick Wilson did a great job, he was the only person I really liked. I absolutely hated Gerard Butler and THAT singer.

**Raphael** Sat Sep 18, 2010 4:02 pm

mauerite#5 wrote:Well the cast ad to be younger in the movie because it's harder to mask age on screen like you can on stage. One of the major differences between stage and film, which is why I respect stage actors so much more than movie actors, is that stage actors can get away with just rolling their eyes or making a face whereas stage actors must make gestures and actually act to implicate the same emotion that on film they can simply raise an eyebrow to convey.

Actually, they had to cast younger in the movie because some misguided twit demanded the cast be "young and sexy."

As for stage acting versus film acting, it's apples and oranges. The broad gestures and expressions stage actors need to perform in order to get the acting across to the patrons in the last row of the balcony would come across as overacting on film, and the subtle facial tics and more "natural" acting of film actors wouldn't work onstage for the exact opposite reason. They're both legit when it comes to acting, since the purpose is to get the message across to the audience.

R.

Scorp Sun Sep 19, 2010 12:09 am

Raphael wrote:
mauerite#5 wrote:Well the cast ad to be younger in the movie because it's harder to mask age on screen like you can on stage. One of the major differences between stage and film, which is why I respect stage actors so much more than movie actors, is that stage actors can get away with just rolling their eyes or making a face whereas stage actors must make gestures and actually act to implicate the same emotion that on film they can simply raise an eyebrow to convey.
Actually, they had to cast younger in the movie because some misguided twit demanded the cast be "young and sexy."

Indeed. Sadly someone equally misguided seems to have taken this concept beyond the movie in recent years...

As for stage acting versus film acting, it's apples and oranges. The broad gestures and expressions stage actors need to perform in order to get the acting across to the patrons in the last row of the balcony would come across as overacting on film, and the subtle facial tics and more "natural" acting of film actors wouldn't work onstage for the exact opposite reason.

Well, we know you prefer apples. Wink

There's also a case of pears, i.e. neither overacted nor understated, but just plain bad. I think we got pears in this film.

Miss von Krolock Sun Sep 19, 2010 1:45 am

LisaL wrote:I am not a hugh fan of the movie, due to the lack of singing abilits of Gerard Butler and THAT singer, but if you where to cast the Phantom of the Opera who would you cast?? Also remember the director is stating that the cast have to be youngish!!
I am not sure who I would cast but I think Ewan Mcgregor would have to be in there not sure as The Phantom or Raoul but I do think Patrick Wilson did do a great job as Raoul but I hate his hair!!!
Any way let me know your thoughts!

Hugh Jackman

**Raphael** Sun Sep 19, 2010 2:49 am

LisaL wrote:I am not a hugh fan of the movie, due to the lack of singing abilits of Gerard Butler and THAT singer, but if you where to cast the Phantom of the Opera who would you cast?? Also remember the director is stating that the cast have to be youngish!!
I am not sure who I would cast but I think Ewan Mcgregor would have to be in there not sure as The Phantom or Raoul but I do think Patrick Wilson did do a great job as Raoul but I hate his hair!!!
Any way let me know your thoughts!

I'd fire the director before I'd cast the title role young.

R.

IamErik771 Sun Sep 19, 2010 4:56 am

Raphael wrote:
LisaL wrote:I am not a hugh fan of the movie, due to the lack of singing abilits of Gerard Butler and THAT singer, but if you where to cast the Phantom of the Opera who would you cast?? Also remember the director is stating that the cast have to be youngish!!
I am not sure who I would cast but I think Ewan Mcgregor would have to be in there not sure as The Phantom or Raoul but I do think Patrick Wilson did do a great job as Raoul but I hate his hair!!!
Any way let me know your thoughts!
I'd fire the director before I'd cast the title role young.

R.

Amen to that. Though there certainly are Hollywood actors who are capable singers, I can't think of any I'd really want to see as the Phantom... so I'd definitely want to go with stage actors (preferably those who've previously performed in POTO) if I were in charge of casting a film version. But meh... water under the bridge and all that.

SenorSwanky Sun Sep 19, 2010 3:42 pm

The only star I can think of who I could have seen as the Phantom is David Bowie, though that would have to have been years ago. If I'd known how well James Marsden can sing, I would have liked to have seen him as Raoul. Didn't like Patrick Wilson; for all his stage cred, I don't think he did a much better job than Gerry or Emmy. Christine should have been filled by a complete unknown with the sweetest, most ringing young soprano voice they could find. Didn't like Miranda Richardson's Mme. Giry either; I had hoped for someone like Glenn Close or Julie Andrews (her in a darker role would have been interesting). I can see a lot of comic actors with state musical experience as the managers, and acting-wise (though not vocally), I think the two in the movie did an OK job.

Riene Sun Sep 19, 2010 7:06 pm

SenorSwanky wrote:The only star I can think of who I could have seen as the Phantom is David Bowie, though that would have to have been years ago. If I'd known how well James Marsden can sing, I would have liked to have seen him as Raoul. Didn't like Patrick Wilson; for all his stage cred, I don't think he did a much better job than Gerry or Emmy. Christine should have been filled by a complete unknown with the sweetest, most ringing young soprano voice they could find. Didn't like Miranda Richardson's Mme. Giry either; I had hoped for someone like Glenn Close or Julie Andrews (her in a darker role would have been interesting). I can see a lot of comic actors with state musical experience as the managers, and acting-wise (though not vocally), I think the two in the movie did an OK job.

Glenn Close could have been a very interesting Mme. Giry! I can see her pulling that role off quite well. Julie Andrews...hmm. She could probably have done it, but I'm not sure how well I'd have been able to dissociate myself from her previous roles.

I'd have liked to see Kelsey Grammer as one of the managers.

LisaL Sun Sep 19, 2010 10:38 pm

Riene wrote:
SenorSwanky wrote:The only star I can think of who I could have seen as the Phantom is David Bowie, though that would have to have been years ago. If I'd known how well James Marsden can sing, I would have liked to have seen him as Raoul. Didn't like Patrick Wilson; for all his stage cred, I don't think he did a much better job than Gerry or Emmy. Christine should have been filled by a complete unknown with the sweetest, most ringing young soprano voice they could find. Didn't like Miranda Richardson's Mme. Giry either; I had hoped for someone like Glenn Close or Julie Andrews (her in a darker role would have been interesting). I can see a lot of comic actors with state musical experience as the managers, and acting-wise (though not vocally), I think the two in the movie did an OK job.

Glenn Close could have been a very interesting Mme. Giry! I can see her pulling that role off quite well. Julie Andrews...hmm. She could probably have done it, but I'm not sure how well I'd have been able to dissociate myself from her previous roles.

I'd have liked to see Kelsey Grammer as one of the managers.

Awww yes I would of loved to see Kelsey Grammer as one of the managers think he would of pulled it off with class, I could also see Glen Close as Mme Giry.......Hugh Jackman yes please Wink

I do agree that an unknow should of been casted as Christine..this could of been the search for an unknow actress like Scarlet in Gone With The Wind!! But alas it was not to be we got Emmy and even though she was meant to be trained as a soprano with Opera Stage experince behide her im sorry for me personally it didn't come across like that on screen!!

LadyCDaae Mon Sep 20, 2010 2:02 am

I think Kelsey Grammer would make a good Firmin--he does pompous and dry-witted very well. I remember hearing that Alan Cumming was being considered for a manager role; I think he'd make a great Andre.

Another vote for Hugh Jackman as the Phantom here, with Anne Hathaway or an unknown as Christine. I'd like to see how Patrick Wilson would do Raoul with better direction (and a decent hairstyle), but Ewan McGregor or John Barrowman would be excellent as well. I would also really, really love to see Kristen Chenoweth tackle Carlotta. She has a great voice and comic timing, and I just love the idea of all of Carlotta's voice and attitude coming out of that tiny little body.

~LCD

Mme Reyer Mon Sep 20, 2010 3:15 am

Just watched recently and a few things grate: the lair is sunlit with a million candles burning....what ever happened to the "dark dungeon"?

The backstory in the movie demolishes the storyline of LND! Hahaha!!

Raoul's long hair.

I'd LOVE the movie if Hugh Panaro (at the time Broadway's Phantom) had done the part! Big mistake not using trained voices.....like the Mamma Mia movie. I guess they feel that no one will go and see it if they don't recognize the actors...

What I did like are the little chapel, the ballet costumes in Il Muto, etc.

SenorSwanky Mon Sep 20, 2010 3:47 pm

I'm sure Jackman could have acted the part well, but I'm not a fan of his voice, which is why I've never wanted him to play the role.

Guys I've thought of in the past for the managers include Tim Curry, John Lithgow, and Nathan Lane.

ML6 Tue Sep 21, 2010 12:40 am

Hey everyone, I'm going to share something with you that I found in Patti LuPone's autobiography. You might see why I'm posting this in here after you finish it. ;D

One night after the show [Gypsy], Bernie Gertsen and his wife, Cora Cahan, took Stephen Daldry and me to Orso for supper. As he was leaving, Joel Schumacher came to our table and complimented me. He'd seen the show that night. He then told us a story about the making of the movie The Phantom of the Opera. According to Joel, at one point during the casting process Andrew Lloyd Webber suggested that I should play Carlotta.
"But Andrew," Joel explained patiently, "she doesn't talk to you."
"Oh yes," Andrew replied. "There is that."

Just thought I'd share something that made me laugh two minutes ago after I read it. Very Happy

EarlFan Tue Sep 21, 2010 10:38 am

ML6 wrote:
One night after the show [Gypsy], Bernie Gertsen and his wife, Cora Cahan, took Stephen Daldry and me to Orso for supper. As he was leaving, Joel Schumacher came to our table and complimented me. He'd seen the show that night. He then told us a story about the making of the movie The Phantom of the Opera. According to Joel, at one point during the casting process Andrew Lloyd Webber suggested that I should play Carlotta.
"But Andrew," Joel explained patiently, "she doesn't talk to you."
"Oh yes," Andrew replied. "There is that."

Haha, brilliant! Laughing

SenorSwanky Tue Sep 21, 2010 6:33 pm

Shows what ALW knows about voices. She could certainly act the part well. She is the diva of all divas, after all.

ML6 Tue Sep 21, 2010 7:59 pm

Yeah, apparently the autobiography is RIDDLED with famous 'Webber thoughts and words of wisdom'.

IamErik771 Tue Sep 21, 2010 8:01 pm

Aside from the fact that Patti's definitely not a soprano, a part of me would have really liked to see that. (And I suppose they could have dubbed her, as they ultimately ended up doing with the role anyway.)

But yeah... Either that's what ALW had in mind, or he really is clueless about voices. Considering the fact that he referred to Gerard Butler as having a "rock tenor voice" in the DVD's "making-of" feature, I wouldn't be too surprised if it's the latter.

phantomphan1992 Wed Oct 20, 2010 7:12 pm

Don't know if anyone was watching the ALCS game last night, but Patrick Wilson sang God Bless America.

IamErik771 Fri Oct 29, 2010 2:27 am

Hmm. According to this video, they're now doing a Japanese-language dub of the '04 movie, nearly 6 years after its original release. It's going to be broadcast on TV in Japan on December 17th... Wonder if they'll follow up with a soundtrack and/or DVD release? Much as I'm not a fan of the movie, it'll be interesting to see how it sounds. (I like the foreign dubs quite a bit more than the English, and like the cast they've assembled for this.)

Hopefully, this'll turn up for purchase (or otherwise) online sometime after the broadcast.

IamErik771 Wed Dec 29, 2010 5:55 am

Sorry for the double-post... but anyway, a friend of mine who lives in Japan recorded the movie on VHS and sent it to me. I watched it last night and reviewed it here. In all, it was quite interesting. (I just about died laughing when I saw that MOTN was followed by a commercial for toilet cleaner.

)

Klavirista Wed Dec 29, 2010 8:14 am

IamErik771 wrote:
I just about died laughing when I saw that MOTN was followed by a commercial for toilet cleaner

Very logical continuation Smile

I think that Osamu Takai's (Phantom) voice doesn't go well with Gerard Butler's image. Takai's voice is very powerful and well-trained.

IamErik771 Wed Dec 29, 2010 4:34 pm

Klavirista wrote:I think that Osamu Takai's (Phantom) voice doesn't go well with Gerard Butler's image. Takai's voice is very powerful and well-trained.

True... I think that's why I liked it so much. I can actually believe that someone would want to take singing lessons from this guy! Very Happy

operafantomet Wed Dec 29, 2010 5:13 pm

IamErik771 wrote:Sorry for the double-post... but anyway, a friend of mine who lives in Japan recorded the movie on VHS and sent it to me. I watched it last night and reviewed it here. In all, it was quite interesting. (I just about died laughing when I saw that MOTN was followed by a commercial for toilet cleaner. )

I'm surprised they never released an official Japanese dub. Japan is a big market, and quite crazy about POTO too. A Japanese dub would make more sense than for example an Italian one (though I'm not complaining, the latter is probably the one I prefer of the dubs).

The toilet cleaner commercial... something going down the drain, eh? Wink

Scorp Wed Dec 29, 2010 10:06 pm

Whaaa? I'm confused. They've only just made a Japanese dub or did one exist all along and just not make it out onto CD (like the two French versions)? Not sure how much I want it though. The three Japan cast recordings of the stage version suit me fine...and I'm not sure I can bear to listen to that happy clappy overture and that really cheesy organ in the graveyard again...

operafantomet Wed Dec 29, 2010 10:42 pm

Scorp wrote:Whaaa? I'm confused. They've only just made a Japanese dub or did one exist all along and just not make it out onto CD (like the two French versions)? Not sure how much I want it though. The three Japan cast recordings of the stage version suit me fine...and I'm not sure I can bear to listen to that happy clappy overture and that really cheesy organ in the graveyard again...

I think it's dubbed especially for TV, and that it (at least so far) has not been released on CD or DVD.

I do agree with you, though. Stage cast or not, they're made to imitate the English original, which by my standard is not good at all. Even wonderful Juan Carlos Barona and Julia Möller in the Spanish soundtrack sounds dull, just a pale shadow on how they were in the stage version. That said, I haven't heard the Japanese dub, so I might be positively surprised.... But something tells me I'll prefer the three Japanese cast albums I have.

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