Love Never Dies - all views allowed

Ben Lewis seems to have a nice voice. He'd make a good Raoul or even Phantom in the original. Reminded me a little of Steve Barton from the short bits I heard of him.

The nerve of the producers though. Probably planted/overhyped crap like in London, just to get publicity and sympathy for the show. Shameful. It's also shameful to suggest anyone is censoring anyone. Fans have the right to say and do whatever they want as long as they're not harming the show's property. Free speech and expression go both ways, douchebags.

Ya know, I'm getting really tired of the "Waaah the people on the Internet are MEAN to us!" line coming out of the ALW camp. Honestly, you'd think this was the first time a fandom threw a major guano-storm over something they didn't like (heck, it's not the first time THIS fandom has done it--Michael Crawford Movie Campaign, anyone?). I don't know if they're going the "no publicity is bad publicity" route, or if they're taking advantage of a convenient scapegoat for a struggling production, but either way I find it rather sad.

~LCD

Celia Graham, David Thaxton. Ramin Karimloo

http://www.playbill.com/multimedia/gallery/2470

An interesting article on Love Never Dies and issues its having.

Link to Daily Mail article.

MasqPhan wrote:An interesting article on Love Never Dies and issues its having.

Link to Daily Mail article.

ALW can't seriously mean it's a good idea to close LND in London AGAIN, to implant the Aussie changes and design?

I mean, I can see how he's more happy with the Aussie production in terms of razzle-dazzle. But bottom line is that the story still hasn't changed, and it's the story press and theatre goers alike point out as the weakest link.

I can also see how he doesn't want his "last" big musical to be this semi-failure not even reaching Broadway. I can see how he want to be remembered as the king of musicals, and how he wanted LND to be the crown of a fantastic career. But right now he's hurting other people's careers on behalf of his own. And if this is true:

Its producers aren’t allowed to raise further funds to keep the show running, so the Really Useful Group has for months been funding it itself.

It is very, very bad. I don't know what else to say. I am positive he'll keep LND open until after the 25th anniversary of Phantom. But I really don't see a future for the show after that.

operafantomet wrote:
ALW can't seriously mean it's a good idea to close LND in London AGAIN, to implant the Aussie changes and design?

I mean, I can see how he's more happy with the Aussie production in terms of razzle-dazzle. But bottom line is that the story still hasn't changed, and it's the story press and theatre goers alike point out as the weakest link.

Not to mention the fact building a whole new set and completely re-staging the show would almost certainly be a costly endeavor--and unless the Australia production is really well received by critics and audiences (so far it seems to be getting the same mixed reaction as in London) I'm not convinced ALW could persuade his collaborators it's worth the risk.

At this point, I actually have more respect for Spider Man: Turn Off the Dark than I do for this show--whatever else, the production team of the former seems to have actually paid attention to the criticisms, and made an honest effort to fix it. Even if they're still unsuccessful, you can't say they didn't try. ALW is just rearranging the Titanic's proverbial deck chairs.

~LCD

Those investors even got a crappy rate of return on this show compared to others because RUG was so sure it'd make bucketloads of money just because of the Phantom brand. I would love to read the full letter they were sent.

RUG's pockets aren't infinitely deep... Surely putting the Australian set on stage (as if a mere change in set will fix this show's myriad of problems) would set them back even further into danger zone? Surely the board of directors would be concerned about the possibility of making RUG insolvent if this goes on for much longer...? Then again, since RUG are apparently going to stop producing soon, maybe they feel they can throw every last penny at it.

I have no sympathy for anyone involved, though. I am surprised they've dragged this situation out for so long. ALW sounds very stubborn/determined on this whole thing. But I think he's fighting a losing battle. And he's destroyed a lot of relationships with this show -- Jack O'Brien, Glenn Slater, Jerry Mitchell, Bob Dudley and even André Ptaszynski from what I've heard. The LND graveyard looks set to dwarf the bloodshed that went on behind the scenes at the Adelphi two decades ago with Sunset...

Now is a very nice time to dig up this very old video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Q2bxODzS_8 I wonder what the man who makes the final comment thinks now.

One good thing that has come out of this news, is many of the extremely vocal LND fans seem to have conceded that in fact the show ISN'T doing well and have finally admitted that to themselves. They spent many months swearing blindly that anyone who was honest about the emptiness of the theatre was lying or were haters, they seem to have finally realised, that despite their support it is not doing well.

I'm surprised that RUG have actually thrown so much of their own money into it. I'd place bets that Ramin's last show is when the show will close, however some have said perhaps ALW will use the Phantom concert as a last ditch resort to try help ticket sales for LND.

ETA: I will clarify there's still a couple of the vocal ones swearing blind that they can't believe anything from the Daily Mail. All I'm saying was they did heavily hint about someone who rhymes with figs and that was true... if you don't get that then I can't elaborate....

Just read the Daily Mail article. It really appears at this point that LND is only running due to ALW's pride. Or maybe stubbornness. If he winds up running his company into the ground because he refuses to concede the fact that his latest show simply isn't a good one, he'll have no one to blame but himself (but I'm sure he'll find some way to blame Jeff and Rebecca).

As for the Australia production, while the descriptions of the set design sounds really all-out and visually intriguing, as operafantomet said, it doesn't change the fact that the problems are with the story. Dress it up any way you want; it's still a stinker, just a stinker in a fancier outfit.

TAFKaR

What mystifies me is there hasn't been any stunt casting yet. I know Ramin carries some clout in West End circles but surprised in March we didn't get: Rhydian Roberts or Johnathan Ansell as the Phantom, Darius Campbell as Raoul, Lauren Samuels as Christine - not that I'd want to see that you understand but may have boosted some sales....in fact as an ex usher at Manchester based theatre I KNOW that kind of move works with the great unwashed! If the boss is so desperate to keep it on worth a punt don't you think & certainly cheaper than going Aussie?

This week Andy sold a painting for £35 million & gave £32 mil of that sale to charity, I'm sure he'll find something else in the garage to for the LND fund...lost £4 million pffft drop in the ocean for the Lord haha!

I'd place bets that Ramin's last show is when the show will close, however some have said perhaps ALW will use the Phantom concert as a last ditch resort to try help ticket sales for LND.

Ramin's last show seems like an ideal time to close it. If they can get someone to replace him, then they might keep it open a bit longer in the hope that the concert will boost ticket sales. I'm sure I heard somewhere that David Thaxton was only in it until September too.

.What mystifies me is there hasn't been any stunt casting yet. I know Ramin carries some clout in West End circles but surprised in March we didn't get: Rhydian Roberts or Johnathan Ansell as the Phantom, Darius Campbell as Raoul, Lauren Samuels as Christine - not that I'd want to see that you understand but may have boosted some sales....in fact as an ex usher at Manchester based theatre I KNOW that kind of move works with the great unwashed!

If they find a celebrity willing to go in, then perhaps Ramin's replacement will be stunt cast.

If they find a celebrity willing to go in, then perhaps Ramin's replacement will be stunt cast.

In the world of celebrity there's always someone willing to do anything!

Honestly, LND needs to get the f*k out of that theatre. I want to see Lerner and Lowe's gorgeous Camelot. The Adelphi is perfect for it, and the show *needs* a revial. I think the last one was in the 80's? It also stared Claire Moore and Nimue! I can see good things with Camelot.

A few people are said to be contracted only until September: Ramin, Tam, David and Liz are the ones I'm aware of. Of course, it was probably intended to be a mini cast change but I could see it closing then.

On the subject of LND Australia, I actually really like Ben Lewis' voice, however, I think his version of The Beauty Underneath shows why in musicals, you shouldn't really have a song that so obviously plays to ONE performers strengths, because, in my opinion, it's even more painful to listen to when that one (or select group of performers) isn't singing it.

So the musical has opened in Australia, and reviews are ticking in.

As a general rule, they're all immensely proud of how the Australian production is a vast improvement on the London one. The design is what makes it an eventual hit. The Aussie cast is also highly praised. However, they all point out the weak storyline and the bad lyrics, and some even pick on the score. The unmotivated change in the character's personality is also very much commented upon.

So basically, same as in London: a nice spectacle over thin material. This is what 90% of the London reviewers said. Why wasn't this fixed for Australia? Why wasn't the lyrics re-written? Why wasn't the story seriously overhauled? C'mon, ALW... If you're serious about this musical going to Broadway, you need to kill your darlings. It's not just "a handful of sad phans" who points out these flaws, it's also professional reviewers on three continents (no-one has forgotten the butchering from the US press, right?). Get real. Now.


At its heart, Love Never Dies has no heart. It is a hollow spectacle, grandly distracting but unengaging, lacking depth, drama and genuine emotion. As The Phantom sings at one point, “Diamonds never sparkle bright/If they aren’t set just right.” Here the setting is perfect, but the diamond is revealed to be glass.
http://www.artshub.com.au/au/news-article/reviews/performing-arts/love-never-dies-184155


When I wrote about the show earlier this year, I said that there needs to be severe script and music revisions for the show to work. It is almost beyond comprehension that with all the great technical and direction work that has gone in to the show, the actual script, songs and structure of the show remains much the same. (...) Likewise the paper thin story and the utterly unconvincing melodramatic and ridiculous final scene (which brought giggles from many people around me) is still there and the actors excellent as they are, can only serve the hysteria of this scene.
http://www.aussietheatre.com.au/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1487%3Aaustralias-creative-pride&catid=38%3Astraight-to-the-point&Itemid=58


An inspired, often ravishing production for sure, though of a sequel that doesn’t make a strong enough musical or narrative argument for its own existence.
http://eightnightsaweek.blogspot.com/2011/05/review-love-never-dies.html


The best thing Lloyd Webber has written in the quarter century since Phantom of the Opera, Love Never Dies is still a missed opportunity. It toys half-heartedly with domestic melancholia. (...) Love Never Dies provides several of those rush moments, but doesn't quite connect the starry dots.
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/arts/phantom-sequel-spectacularly-unmasked/story-e6frg8n6-1226065084717


“In my mind I hear melodies pure and unearthly, but I find I can’t give them a voice without you,” the masked one seethes in the opening scene. He is grotesquely mortal now, stripped of the alchemy, the hypnotic allure, of the original. Much like this sequel.
http://blogs.crikey.com.au/curtaincall/2011/05/30/review-love-never-dies-regent-theatre-melbourne/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+CrikeyBlogs+%28Crikey+Blogs%29&utm_content=Google+Feedfetcher


Whatever the problem was with the original Love Never Dies in London, Andrew Lloyd Webber has fixed it. The Australian production is spectacular. (...) It will be interesting to see how the Australian theatre critics write-up ‘Love Never Dies’ over the coming week. Theatre purists that I spoke with after the show were the most critical but casual theatre goers who generally attend rock concerts absolutely loved it.
http://www.undercover.fm/news/14910-andrew-lloyd-webber-has-a-hit-with-love-never-dies


It's something easily forgotten, but a key strength of Andrew Lloyd Webber's original production was the storyline adapted from Gaston Leroux. The basic plot of the Phantom and his love for the talented ingénue Christine is a timeless mix of horror and romance (...). As evidenced even in this brief synopsis, Love Never Dies has placed a creative bet each way. The characters have literally moved on from the world of Phantom, but the story still strives to push them into situations that will replicate the winning formula. This might have worked if the characters were as strongly motivated as before, but instead they feel driven by the needs of a sequel (...), it looks suspiciously like Love Never Dies is simply cannibalising its parent.
http://www.au.timeout.com/melbourne/theatre/events/273/love-never-dies


A bigger problem is the unsatisfying story. There are unnecessary red herrings and too many villains. Madame Giry's role in the tale keeps changing, Meg's jealous rage is surprising -- even unlikely -- and there is little evidence of any history of love between Raoul and Christine. A duet for the couple is sorely missed. (...) While Love Never Dies sets a visual design standard that will be difficult to surpass, it is disappointing that the narrative and music fail to reach the same lofty heights.
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/entertainment/arts/review-love-never-dies-by-andrew-lloyd-webber-regent-theatre-melbourne/story-fn7eul6a-1226065442883

Ben Lewis can come be the Phantom in the original anytime, and I'm sure the sets are nice. But the show's main problems, in order of terribleness and unsolveability, are:

1.) The storyline and characters
2.) The lyrics
3.) The score

Like the Phantom, it aches down to its core.

Love Never Dies to Close ?

Scroll down to around mid-way through the article for the relevant section. Apparently another show is moving into The Adelphi from November.

starryeyed wrote:Love Never Dies to Close ?

Scroll down to around mid-way through the article for the relevant section. Apparently another show is moving into The Adelphi from November.

Drinks are on me

Further to my last post, the date of closure is apparently August 27th. If this is true, that's before the planned cast change...

Here's a link...

http://www.whatsonstage.com/news/theatre/london/E8831308308613/

I'm crying into my corn flakes this morning.

Not really.

I'm not gloating and I wish the cast/crew lots of luck with whatever they do next, but I can't say I'm sad. It's a unnecessary story that showed little respect for its original and it's been extremely divisive to the phan community.

Ramin is now tweeting about the news, something he has never done about any other rumours of closure.

"If these announcements are indeed true, I'll let you all know. However if they are I am so sorry to my (our) supporters who have booked ...Flights for the third of September for my final show. Again, if it is confirmed that we are indeed closing on the 27th of Aug."

I do feel sorry for the cast--first ALW basically throws the London production under a bus so he can sing the praises of his new baby in Melbourne, now the gossip columns are breaking news of their unemployment before they've had a chance to hear and digest the news. It's Patti LuPone in Sunset all over again.

They're all more talented than the material deserved, and here's hoping they move on to much better things.

~LCD

I feel sorry for the cast too. I don't know if any of you remember, or are aware, but before the cast of Oliver were told they would be closing this January, one of the cast spotted a "final 6 months" poster on a bus stop! This is quite similar...

ETA: Charles Brunton (Gangle) has tweeted he has just received an email confirming the news. He, very rightly, is mouthing off about the fact this was on the internet first.

LadyCDaae wrote:I do feel sorry for the cast--first ALW basically throws the London production under a bus so he can sing the praises of his new baby in Melbourne, now the gossip columns are breaking news of their unemployment before they've had a chance to hear and digest the news. It's Patti LuPone in Sunset all over again.

You know me, I am no LND fan and I'm mostly surprised the production has lasted as long as it has. BUT: Holy Moses, that is just... I have no words.

Poor, poor cast, who's been one of the main attractions of the musical, and who's worked their ass off to get the show up and running. And now they're basically informed through media that hey, you're all soon to be unemployed. I feel for Ramin Karimloo, who was faced with the news on Twitter and had to write "If these announcements are indeed true, I'll let you all know. However if they are I am so sorry to my (our) supporters who have booked...". Talk about throwing them to the wolves, first by ALW publicly saying that the London production was no good, and then to just fire everyone through media - which I'm sure they didn't intend to do, but it's still what happened.

I HOPE they have a plan with this. I don't know how likely an eventual tour or revamped production in another theatre would be, but for the sake of the cast and the public reputation of ALW and RUG I hope they are smart enough to have good news like that at hand. If not, it's.... it's no less than a scandal. I am appalled.

And I bet RUGs response will be yet another Friday singalong on Facebook.

Quote:
I HOPE they have a plan with this. I don't know how likely an eventual tour or revamped production in another theatre would be, but for the sake of the cast and the public reputation of ALW and RUG I hope they are smart enough to have good news like that at hand. If not, it's.... it's no less than a scandal. I am appalled.

I don't give a hoot in hell about RUG's reputation and only a little more about ALW's. He/they brought all of this on themselves. I have a lot more sympathy for cast and crew. They took jobs in a high profile West End show, worked hard, and hoped for success. They haven't been treated well in this endgame of the show.

And I bet RUGs response will be yet another Friday singalong on Facebook.

Too funny!
I'm sure the webmasters have been blindsided too. We'll see what they come up with.

I gotta say, I agree. When I heard about this last night, my god, did it shock me. I simply said, "No, Andrew Lloyd Webber, of ALL PEOPLE, wouldn't go down Sunset Boulevard (ha) all over again..." but, damn, he did, and he took a whole fucking cast with him this time.

That man and his company are a piece of shit. I wonder what's going to happen at this 25th Anniversary. For Ramin it must be terribly hard knowing that you're doing a show for a man that slapped you around for months, told off one of your previous shows, and ... then, said that all the work you did for the last couple months was 'nothing' and had his shitty PR team leak that you're getting canned in the fall.

I hope they all pull out of Webber's/RUG contract for good and find better pastures with smaller venues that treat their 'cast' far nicer.

Not to be a conspiracy theorist or anything but the way Ramin eventually confirmed it actually sounded like he already knew but the rest of the cast didn't... hmmm....

starryeyed wrote:Not to be a conspiracy theorist or anything but the way Ramin eventually confirmed it actually sounded like he already knew but the rest of the cast didn't... hmmm....

Yeah, that is what I thought - here's the tweet:

Ramin's Tweet

Evidently love does die.

I'm working on a project and wanted to poll a few phans about Love Never Dies. If any of your are interested in answering a 7 question survey about Love Never Dies (all views welcome!) please check out: http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/3YHHXYK

It'll take less than 2 minutes to complete and I'll post the results once I have enough responses.

Thanks everyone!