Phantom of Manhattan (spoilers)

operafantomet Mon Oct 12, 2009 8:02 am

Sooo... I will come back to more detailed comments on this book later on. But one thing I've thought about, is:

I get the feeling this was Andrew Lloyd Webber's vision all along. I've read many Forsyth books, and they all seem to have a different tone and style than "Phantom of Manhattan". Better plots too... And seeing how much of the ideas from this book is re-used in ~~Bram Stoker's Dracula~~ "Love Never Dies", though ALW now claims the sequel isn't based on the named book, makes me wonder how much Forsyth contributed with in the first place.

Reading quotes like

"It's taken me ten years to decide to do this and I want to base it on the ideas I had with Freddie Forsyth years ago for something called The Phantom Of Manhattan that came out as a book".

In the same interview Forsyth tells that ALW said something along the lines of "You know, one thing that's always intrigued me is whatever happened to this guy?" (blaming it on Maria Bjørnson my ass... Whatever her thought about it were, I think it's the Lord himself who's found the end unsatisfying)

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-457902/Frederick-Forsyth-signed-write-sequel-Phantom-Opera.html#ixzz0ThooymIx

For the most I strongly dislike "Phantom of Manhattan". Of course, the preface alone is a major turn-off, but even when ignoring that I think the book is marred with contradictions, almost parodic descriptions and a weak plot. I will as mentioned come back to that later.

What I DO fancy, however, is the description of the new opera house in New York. That part really appeals to me.

HDKingsbury Mon Oct 12, 2009 2:09 pm

What I remember most about this book has less to do with the Phantom...and more to do with my own American Civil War studies. They are:

The mayor of NYC -- George McClellan. When I first read the book, I thought "I don't remember Gen. McClellan becoming mayor of New York after the war." Naturally, I looked this up and discovered that the George McClellan in PoM would have been the son of the aforementioned Union general.

The opera Christine performed in -- The Angel of Shiloh. Again, less to do with the Phantom and Christine, and more to do with this "Oh! I've been to Shiloh before!" reaction.

So those were my highlights of the book.

Paula74 Mon Oct 12, 2009 4:01 pm

I somehow missed out on hearing about this book when it was first published. My first news of it came from a mention at PFN while the 2004 movie was still in the theaters.

I found out that my library had a copy so I went over and found it in the Horror section.

Well, I didn't like it. In fact, I usually say I never regret reading anything. In this case, I would like a refund for the time it took for me to read it. At least it was a fast read.

As I've said before, the only thing I liked was the cover.

HDKingsbury Mon Oct 12, 2009 4:22 pm

Gah! This site's giving me fits today. I had a nice reply posted to Paula's comments, and when I went to click Send, I got a blank screen. When I went to refresh, I got Server Error. Now I'm back and...my post is gone. *sniff...sniff*

I'm trying to remember what I wrote. It was something about my having purchased this book when it initially came out, and that I didn't mind it so much when I first read it, but upon subsequent readings, my dislike for it grew (just as happened to me with the '04 movie -- initial excitement over something Phantom, then realization that behind the glitz was a dud).

I think the thing that annoys me the most is "Freddy's" assertion that Leroux got it all wrong. WTF?? The Phantom is Leroux's creation! How the heck does the guy who created the story in the first place get it wrong? Suspect

Becky Mon Oct 12, 2009 11:48 pm

HDKingsbury wrote:I think the thing that annoys me the most is "Freddy's" assertion that Leroux got it all wrong. WTF?? The Phantom is Leroux's creation! How the heck does the guy who created the story in the first place get it wrong?

How anyone could have the audacity to say that someone got their own fictional creation "wrong" is beyond me, and is for me the most annoying aspect about the book as well.

I also really have problems with the idea of Christine and the Phantom having a child. In Leroux's novel I think there's a bit more room for the possibility (but still not sufficiently), but less so in Weber's version.
Ack, I may get more into this later, as I'm being called in for a meeting right now.

Riene Tue Oct 13, 2009 2:34 am

Quoting a post I wrote elsewhere:

I bought the book solely to have a (at the time) complete collection of Phantom things. I dislike Forsyth to begin with--I'm not a fan of "pot-boilers." I forced myself through the book thinking it couldn't possibly be as bad as I was hearing, but alas, it was. He seemed to include every seamy, seedy bit of the American underbelly that he could find to add, and altered the Phantom's character so completely that it made me wonder why someone didn't sue.

HDKingsbury Tue Oct 13, 2009 2:39 am

I bought my original copy through the Doubleday Book Club. Later, I got rid of it. Then, when I started collecting Phantom books, I decided that as much as I questioned much of the story, I wanted to have a copy to fill out said collection. So, I got a paperback copy this past year.

In that respect, it's much like my DVDs of The Phantom of Paradise and the Robert Englund Phantom -- I'm not crazy about either one (although the Englund Phantom has some beautifully atmospheric scenes, especially the cemetery), but I wanted a copy to add to my collection.

ML6 Thu Oct 29, 2009 5:22 am

This book is hilarious. Mainly because I love Darius and Father Joe. Their chapters are the most hilarious bits in the whole book!
Father Joe believes he REALLY IS God's right hand man. And Darius believes that he and the Devil will be one with Erik's money.

Good lord.

phantomphan1992 Thu Oct 29, 2009 9:53 pm

I was going through a huge bin of books I have that can't fit on my bookshelf, and I found it. It's now safely tucked away once more.

Josephine Thu Dec 31, 2009 7:46 am

My mum found me the book in a second-hand bookstore a few days ago. I've read the first two chapters so far, and I don't like it much. Now I wonder if I should go on reading anyway. I mean, it kind of is part of the Phantom world. What do you guys think?

phantom10906 Thu Dec 31, 2009 8:56 am

Josephine wrote:My mum found me the book in a second-hand bookstore a few days ago. I've read the first two chapters so far, and I don't like it much. Now I wonder if I should go on reading anyway. I mean, it kind of is part of the Phantom world. What do you guys think?

I'd say its worth at least reading through just once. Even if it is just to laugh at how bad it is.

Riene Fri Jan 01, 2010 3:13 pm

Josephine wrote:My mum found me the book in a second-hand bookstore a few days ago. I've read the first two chapters so far, and I don't like it much. Now I wonder if I should go on reading anyway. I mean, it kind of is part of the Phantom world. What do you guys think?

Read it, so you'll understand just how much some of us are dreading the new movie....

phantomgirl110 Sat Jan 02, 2010 3:53 am

Riene wrote:
Josephine wrote:My mum found me the book in a second-hand bookstore a few days ago. I've read the first two chapters so far, and I don't like it much. Now I wonder if I should go on reading anyway. I mean, it kind of is part of the Phantom world. What do you guys think?
Read it, so you'll understand just how much some of us are dreading the new movie....

I only wish it were going to be a movie. It'd be easier to ignore that way.

Scorp Sat Jan 02, 2010 11:04 pm

phantomgirl110 wrote:
Riene wrote:
Josephine wrote:My mum found me the book in a second-hand bookstore a few days ago. I've read the first two chapters so far, and I don't like it much. Now I wonder if I should go on reading anyway. I mean, it kind of is part of the Phantom world. What do you guys think?
Read it, so you'll understand just how much some of us are dreading the new movie....
I only wish it were going to be a movie. It'd be easier to ignore that way.

OMG!!!!1111111 I sooooooooo want a movieeeee, that'd be awsum. But they shud like only make a movie if Gerry, Emmy and Patrick in it...no-one else!!!!! THEY OWN THOSE ROLES!!1!

(Kidding).

phantom10906 Sat Jan 02, 2010 11:09 pm

Scorp wrote:
phantomgirl110 wrote:
Riene wrote:
Josephine wrote:My mum found me the book in a second-hand bookstore a few days ago. I've read the first two chapters so far, and I don't like it much. Now I wonder if I should go on reading anyway. I mean, it kind of is part of the Phantom world. What do you guys think?
Read it, so you'll understand just how much some of us are dreading the new movie....
I only wish it were going to be a movie. It'd be easier to ignore that way.

OMG!!!!1111111 I sooooooooo want a movieeeee, that'd be awsum. But they shud like only make a movie if Gerry, Emmy and Patrick in it...no-one else!!!!! THEY OWN THOSE ROLES!!1!

(Kidding).

Josephine Sun Jan 03, 2010 9:45 am

Scorp wrote:OMG!!!!1111111 I sooooooooo want a movieeeee, that'd be awsum. But they shud like only make a movie if Gerry, Emmy and Patrick in it...no-one else!!!!! THEY OWN THOSE ROLES!!1

That just made my day! Very Happy

Now I know why I have to read the book: so I can imagine a movie starring those three!

Scorp Fri Jan 08, 2010 12:16 pm

This just came up on my Facebook feed thanks to LSD:

Phantom of Manhattan (spoilers) 20667_237561229286_505479286_2980475_8097831_n

I'm starting to wish I had a copy now just so I could do the same, LOL.

phantom10906 Fri Jan 08, 2010 5:44 pm

Scorp wrote:This just came up on my Facebook feed thanks to LSD:

I'm starting to wish I had a copy now just so I could do the same, LOL.

That is the most genius idea i have seen in the past year, Bravo! Laughing

Paula74 Fri Jan 08, 2010 5:48 pm

That's pretty awesome (and I'm speaking as someone who was taught to respect books so much that I feel bad even throwing away a worn-out book).

operafantomet Fri Jan 08, 2010 5:58 pm

Mine has such a pretty cover... Otherwise I would totally join that book burning!

Madame Giry Fri Jan 08, 2010 7:16 pm

Now that's what I call an alternative fuel source! Very Happy

*thumbs up*

~Madame~

Paula74 Fri Jan 08, 2010 7:31 pm

Madame Giry wrote:Now that's what I call an alternative fuel source! *thumbs up*

A book that bad might be quite toxic, though! Wink

ML6 Fri Jan 08, 2010 8:04 pm

Hey everyone! I was the one who burnt the book. Smile

I apparently had three copies of the book lying around in my house. (I come across/turn my friends into Phantom fans that I get them to read the book. And then they yell because I fooled them into thinking it was great...anyway...) I took my third copy and I burnt it. We put it in that cardboard box, and ripped it into three pieces. I got the cover (and I accidentally dropped it into the snow, which is why there is snow on it), my other friends got the middle and the back. And we lit that sucker up.

Surprisingly like the Opera Populaire in the film, (after the chandelier crash) that box blew up like a bomb. We had to stand back because the flames got increasingly high at one point.

Anyway, the point is, that was my copy. And I'm glad you all enjoyed the warm that the burnt copies of Phantom of Manhattan created. If only LND was a book, or if there was merchandise of some cheep sort over in the US. It would have gladly joined it. Smile

starryeyed Fri Jan 08, 2010 9:24 pm

Edited: Sorry thought this was Love Never Dies thread... my post would be more appropriate there (although it was sparked by the excellent burning of the book!)

Josephine Fri Jan 08, 2010 10:19 pm

It could have something to do with me being German, but I'd never burn a book, no matter how much I dislike it. I'll read "The Phantom of Manhattan", and then I'll give it away or simply put it into a box and forget about it. Sorry, but I can't see anything funny about burning a book.

Soprano Rose Fri Jan 08, 2010 11:27 pm

I thought the book burning was genius!

ML6 Sun Jan 17, 2010 2:25 am

Josephine wrote:It could have something to do with me being German, but I'd never burn a book, no matter how much I dislike it. I'll read "The Phantom of Manhattan", and then I'll give it away or simply put it into a box and forget about it. Sorry, but I can't see anything funny about burning a book.

And that's fine! I'm not going to say that it's a good thing either to burn every book in the world you dislike. But I burnt this one because, well, it was a certainable waste of paper, and it didn't offend any 'religions', 'races', or minorities. ... Just the human (phantom) fan soul. Razz

Trust me, I won't be burning any more books (esp. the fanfic published stories). But when it comes to this one, I might get tempted to in the future.

Vicomtesse de Chagny Tue Jun 08, 2010 5:18 pm

I'm one of those that couldn't possibly destroy a book (maybe it's a European thing, Josephine Razz

), and I usually get kind of uncomfortable whenever bookburning is mentioned, but this... *shrugs* It didn't really bother me. But, but the cover on my copy is very pretty so maybe that's why I couldn't dispose of it.

I remember when I found PoM translated into Norwegian at the library - I felt so sorry for the poor guy who had to do the translation. I hope he was well paid for it at least. Again though, the cover was pretty nifty. It had a black/white photo of the skyscrapers and the shadow of a caped and hatted figure. I've considered renting it just to scan the cover, but I'd rather not have my name associated with this piece of... uh, literature.

operafantomet Wed Jun 09, 2010 12:40 pm

Vicomtesse de Chagny wrote:I remember when I found PoM translated into Norwegian at the library - I felt so sorry for the poor guy who had to do the translation. I hope he was well paid for it at least. Again though, the cover was pretty nifty. It had a black/white photo of the skyscrapers and the shadow of a caped and hatted figure. I've considered renting it just to scan the cover, but I'd rather not have my name associated with this piece of... uh, literature.

It's translated into Norwegian?? *chokes* You could copy or photograph the cover at the library, though, without renting it... Wink

PhantomAngel777 Sat Jun 12, 2010 11:03 pm

I remember working hard to stay up all night during my summer vacation to read this (and I usually love to sit up all night and read). All I can remember is being irritated with the priest, getting excited when Erik trapped her in the mirror maze and then HATING it with a passion.

I especially detest it now for the spawn it has produced. Mad

And bravo to burning it. I love books and am totally against burning them, but as long as it's this piece of trash and anything by Glen Beck I'm all for it! lol

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