Love Never Dies - all views allowed

I'm listening to the recording now. I think some of the music is a lot better than I thought it would be, but some is horrible. And why do they sing "beautiful" all the time? The Beauty Underneath is crazy.

I also feel very sorry for Raoul who is made so unsympathetic is is unbelievable. And for Christine who is like a little nervous bird all the time.

And it irritates me that you can hear Aspects of Love, Cats, WIW, Sunset Boulevard and Phantom in the score. At least.

Hey Raph, I need a phantoon of the trio and Gustave on a "Who's My Baby Daddy?" episode of Maury next, ok? That should clear everything up.

Glad to hear the CD is listenable. Is the Ramin solo song as good as many claims (lyrics apart)?

phantomgirl110 wrote:Hey Raph, I need a phantoon of the trio and Gustave on a "Who's My Baby Daddy?" episode of Maury next, ok? That should clear everything up.

Ooh, seconded seconded seconded!

ETA: Okay, I've listened to a couple songs and...honestly, I don't know what everyone else is hearing. Maybe it's because the whole concept is so wrong to me, the music could be Mozart and I wouldn't care. I suppose "Beneath a Moonless Sky" is pretty, but I was laughing too hard at the lyrics to care: "And I touched you!" "And I kissed you!" "And I held you!" And I *censored* you!"

~LCD

LadyCDaae wrote:

phantomgirl110 wrote:Hey Raph, I need a phantoon of the trio and Gustave on a "Who's My Baby Daddy?" episode of Maury next, ok? That should clear everything up.

Ooh, seconded seconded seconded!

ETA: Okay, I've listened to a couple songs and...honestly, I don't know what everyone else is hearing. Maybe it's because the whole concept is so wrong to me, the music could be Mozart and I wouldn't care. I suppose "Beneath a Moonless Sky" is pretty, but I was laughing too hard at the lyrics to care: "And I touched you!" "And I kissed you!" "And I held you!" And I *censored* you!"

~LCD

That whole song is god-awful. It's so physical.

LadyCDaae wrote:

phantomgirl110 wrote:Hey Raph, I need a phantoon of the trio and Gustave on a "Who's My Baby Daddy?" episode of Maury next, ok? That should clear everything up.

Ooh, seconded seconded seconded!

ETA: Okay, I've listened to a couple songs and...honestly, I don't know what everyone else is hearing. Maybe it's because the whole concept is so wrong to me, the music could be Mozart and I wouldn't care. I suppose "Beneath a Moonless Sky" is pretty, but I was laughing too hard at the lyrics to care: "And I touched you!" "And I kissed you!" "And I held you!" And I *censored* you!"

~LCD

Bahaha! That was exactly my reaction as well! I was like, "what's next? 'And I f***ed you!?'"

I almost posted asking where the tune when Raoul sings in Why Does She Love Me? "She looks for sympathy, I give her sorrow..." and then it hit me like a brick wall "In sleep he sang to me, in dreams he came..." and it made me feel really stupid.

I have noticed just how much this "stand alone" show borrows from the original (using a whole passage word from word from TEW etc) surely this is a bit hypocritical? "It's a stand alone but half the music is from the original."

dolly-ry wrote:I almost posted asking where the tune when Raoul sings in Why Does She Love Me? "She looks for sympathy, I give her sorrow..." and then it hit me like a brick wall "In sleep he sang to me, in dreams he came..." and it made me feel really stupid.

I have noticed just how much this "stand alone" show borrows from the original (using a whole passage word from word from TEW etc) surely this is a bit hypocritical? "It's a stand alone but half the music is from the original."

Woman, the whole thing is just a big bunch of lies to the critics to get people to see the show. If the critics don't point that out, by god, I think the world has been flipped on its head.

Oh ML6 you do understand me so! And am I the only crazy person getting strong Beauty and the Beast vibes (more specifically the song Gaston - or any song that takes place in the village) from Heaven By the Sea? Actually I have to stop commenting on it all I just keep hearing more and more familiar melodies. It might be easier to list what is actually original in the soundtrack?

I'm listening to Beneath a moonless sky now. How can they sing these soap opera lyrics in a serious way? And I keep getting images of the Phantom from the final lair scene in my head when I hear Christine sing her part. He drags her in, throws her on the floor, screams at her, drags her a bit more, screams a bit more, captures Raoul in a noose, threatens to kill him in front of Christine, drags her a bit more, throws her on the floor again, she has to beg him on her knees not to do it and it still doesn't help.

Hm, and then they meet up again and she can see his pure and whole soul/heart whatever and think that she loved him and would go with him wherever he went. I think I'm going to be very sick .

Listening to the recording, only finished the first half and a few thoughts.

THIS MAY HAVE IN SOME SPOILERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!










Firstly like Woman in White and Aspects of love, the music is nice, it just does not gell and flow as nice as other pieces like Sunset or Phantom. But that usually takes getting used to.

Some songs in their own are really beautiful.

Yes Beauty Underneath reaks of a paedophile nature, "can you take it!" "YES!" creepy
but the way it interacts with "Beautiful" is very nice, I just think they need to tone down the rock at the start of the sing and have it build up during the song so it is not such a brash out of place feeling song.

Also, as I said before, I am totally tickled when Christine introduces Gustave and you hear the base line from the title song, however I think they should cut that from the start of "Till I Hear You sing" and only use it when Gustave meets the Phantom. But TIll I Hear You sing is a good example of what is wrong with this piece, the buildups to the songs just dont flow into the song.

Dear Old Friend is truly hilarious, my only problem with it is CHristine is there for 3 months and Giry & Co. doesnt find out until the day before the show. Don't they read the papers?

Beneath a Moonless sky is another lovely tune, I've always had a soft spot for the "graveyard" tune that was written for the movie and is is nice to have words to it now. It was one of the only things in the movie I liked. There is a part in that song, I guess it would be the chorus, that reminds me STRONGLY of "He Had It Coming" from Chicago.

Now, I know I will get rocks thrown at me, but the way they explain Gustave makes perfect sence to me, heck it almost happend to me once. Christine goes to see the phantom one more time before she Marries Raoul, I guess to get his memory out of her system, probably feeling guilty but still strangely drawn to him. And in the night their feelings take over and they get it on. TWICE, as the song says. ANd he feels guilty and ashamed of what happens, and probably insecure so he leaves, but she at that moment has already decided not to marry Raoul.

anyways, makes sence to me.

I love "Beautiful" and how that theme works through out act 1. Yes beautiful is repeated alot but after all it is a 10 year old trying to sum up what he is feeling about his music, after all all musicians arent lyricists.

There are 2 lines that start off "Look with your heart" that are just stunning but don't quite fit the rest of the melody.

"Once upon another time" chunks remind me of "ANything byt lonely" and there is a bit in the middle when they are singing high that reminds me of "Unchained Melody"..."Time goes by, so slowly. etc.etc.

so for me, the score is closer so far to Aspects of Love than Woman in White, where as in ASpects, I like the songs themselves, but loathe the "connecting bits"

Cant wait to listen to Act 2 after lunch.

2 other points I forgot to add....

I can not picture Crawford singing these songs at all, his vioce would not suit the style of music. Unless Ramin's style is making it hard to visualise Crawford's vocals on these songs.

However i can hear Colm singing it well. McGillin too actually, it needs a "rough" voice.

second thing, back to "Beautiful" If any one on here knows the Sweedish cast cd/dvd of Chess. They added in a bit of instrumental music before "you and i" and it is quite depressing sounding, but in a good way . Beautiful reminds me strongly of this piece from CHess.

I thought they did it three times listening to the song as there's a line "again and then again beneath a moonless sky" the first again clearly means it has happened before? But to be honest I don't want to dwell on it as the thought of it is just wrong in my mind.

I like your point about building up the rock in The Beauty Underneath, it would be more effective, it is very in your face then dies down then comes back up again but never as it is in the beginning and I think that is the problem with it. When I actually realised the context of the song it doesn't give so much of a creepy vibe but there's still a slight creep factor to it.

I agree on the bass line from the title song too, I liked that and it should be cut from "Till I Hear You Sing" it seems a bit out of place there, I also hate the "10 long years" said in a low, voice of doom style, for me it seems out of tune actually.

And for the record, I hate every single time Madame Giry goes crazy.

ETA: She's been there 3 months? How did I miss that? Although it would explain the fact I was getting confused with the whole "Season premiere" then 2 days later (i thought) "It's the last day of the season..."

The West End Whingers give their view- Paint Never Dries.

http://westendwhingers.wordpress.com/2010/03/02/review-love-never-dies-adelphi-theatre/

It’s the most fabulous overwrought mess currently on view on the West End stage and Wicked is still running apparently!

Much as I love Wicked....

*sits back and waits for the "they hated the original so of course they gave this one an unfair review" contingent to arrive*

~LCD

Ok, so not as impressed with the second act music as the first.

I liked the whole Raoul letter sung to little lotte, but it still seems od dthat he would just leave, it is all very operatic.

but the ending, oy! that really drags on. Im not sure they can fix it because they want to include 2 things: 1. The Phantom and CHristine finally declare their love. 2. Gustave accepts the phantom as his dad and touches his face. It isnt easy to do both these things because If my mum was just shot I would be in no condition to be touching up stranger's faces even if they turn out to be my dad.

So they are in a pickle.

But dragging out death scenes is a hallmark of most operas

And the chase, you can't stage a chase, so shy write it in? I guess that is why they are so many Gustaves in the cast so they have children to chase and mistake for Gustave in that scene.

Vocally, in the scenes where Phantom and Raoul have to interact, it is hard to follow since they sound so similar. A problem I have always had with the Canadian CD with the 2 Managers sounding so similar.

to the discussion about "Devil take the hind most" I could be wrong but isnt that also a kind of cycling race where the last one in the pack is illiminated at the end of each lap until they are 2 left and they sprint to the finish?


Like I said I think somethings can be changed musically, weather ALW will want to is another story. I hate most of the connecting bits and anything the Giry's sing. Alot of the connecting material also sounds like its from Beautiful Game (listen to their overture) and when they look for Gustave and the guy tells the phantom of Raoul leaving, it is straight out of Woman In White's opening scene on the train track. Also I dont see the big deal about "it is already recorded" Most of his shows have gone through major changes since recording.

I've already come up with my own ways of staging this set wise, but will wiat to comment on that when some pics of the show come out.

Enjoyed that review very much, with its For / Against format. Thanks for the link.

justin-from-barbados wrote:But the ending, oy! that really drags on. Im not sure they can fix it because they want to include 2 things: 1. The Phantom and CHristine finally declare their love. 2. Gustave accepts the phantom as his dad and touches his face. It isnt easy to do both these things because If my mum was just shot I would be in no condition to be touching up stranger's faces even if they turn out to be my dad.

So they are in a pickle.

But dragging out death scenes is a hallmark of most operas

It ain't over 'till the fat lady sings. Alas, they lack a fat lady in LND..... So the scene takes forever.

Each time I read about how long and drawn out the finale is, and how long it takes for Christine to die, I cannot help but think of the old jokes about bad opera and the hero/heroine taking forever to die, singing aria after aria before finally expiring. If this were a comedy or deliberate parody, I'd say it was deliberate, but such is not the case. It is, however, yet another example of how many bad cliches were used in the creation of this story.

I'm sure that's one of the things that will be fixed before the premiere, though. I agree that there are two different and important events going on in the end scene, but I'm sure it can be shortened significantly without loosing too much.

I agree about the comments of irrational behaviour in the scene, though. So Gustave witness his mother being shot. But his reaction is to fondle his father's deformed face. The Phantom, having spent some 20-30 years of his life obsessing over Christine, simply hands over her dead body to her murderer. Does he do anything with her murderer? Not at all.

EH??? I hope some of these reactions are changed, and that the people come off as real human beings with real emotions. The whole setting is just too weird and illogical.

I feel as though I'm flogging a dead horse by mentioning this again, but that's my biggest complaint with this show. No, I haven't seen it, but after reading what others who have, have written--on this board, on poto.com, reviews and blogs--I feel confident in being able to come to some conclusions, and my biggest gripe is the hack job that was done in creating believable characters. Their motivation, their development is all but nil. What happened in the original show is all but ignored. We have the Phantom, Christine, Raoul, et al, in name only, and they behave and interact in almost unbelievable ways. The image of the creative team reading too many fan fics is called up again and again.

HDKingsbury wrote:No, I haven't seen it, but after reading what others who have, have written--on this board, on poto.com, reviews and blogs--I feel confident in being able to come to some conclusions,

Same here. I've heard enough detailed synopsis, heard the songs, etc...enough to form an opinion or two. After all, it only took two or three songs from Act I of the original Phantom for me to simply fall in love with that show!

The ending doesn't work for me at all. It didn't work for me when I read The Phantom of Manhattan and this variation works even less.

I was out and about by myself today and ended up listening to Phantom on my iPod. One of those recordings we once referred to as wine It's the first time I've listened to Phantom in its entirety in quite some time and it didn't lose one single bit of its emotional impact. I was so teary-eyed by the end that I was regretting the fact that I'd lost my sunglasses.

But, at the same time, by the end of it, I was also just sick and furious at what this sequel has done in terms of undeveloping the characters and disrespecting so many elements of the original. I felt like giving someone a good kick in the crotch!

Paula, I love your comments. Girl, you just rock.

Listening to the finale again, and putting feelings for characters aside, they need to choose a finale song and stick to it, after she is indeed dead. The 3 of them together, both Phantom and Gustave holding dead Christine and in that moment he can look up and touch his face which would help the story since earlier the Phantom gets unmasked infront of Gustave (i thing even by gustave) and the boy freaks out and the Phantom sings a bit about scaring away his own son. This will atleast make the Phantom and Gustave's relationship seem to have hope.

But it needs to end with a bang, not just fizzle off like the original WIW ending. Pick a song and blow it up at the end, perhaps LND, as is they end off with a combo of till i hear you sing, ah christine and a fizzle of beautiful.


Also (again more stones thrown at me) shy not kill off Meg too? she can shoot Christine intentionally then Gustave squirms away, the Phantom lunges for him knocking her off the pear into the sea to drown (or atleast not been seen again for the show) leaving only the 3 of them on the pier.

I've been listening to quite a bit of said wine lately, the best bottles, so to speak. The music and emotional drive of the original, particularly the character of the Phantom, are still as great and moving as ever; thankfully, I haven't let the thought of the sequel bother me or poison the characters as they are supposed to be. To me, it doesn't even exist. I still haven't listened to any of the new show other than the title song and Til I Hear You Sing, and I don't have much interest in doing so.

HDKingsbury wrote:Each time I read about how long and drawn out the finale is, and how long it takes for Christine to die, I cannot help but think of the old jokes about bad opera and the hero/heroine taking forever to die, singing aria after aria before finally expiring. If this were a comedy or deliberate parody, I'd say it was deliberate, but such is not the case. It is, however, yet another example of how many bad cliches were used in the creation of this story.

Maybe after ALW tweaks the show, Christine will be singing "Not Yet Dead" from Spamalot to spice the finale up a bit.

R.

SenorSwanky wrote:I still haven't listened to any of the new show other than the title song and Til I Hear You Sing, and I don't have much interest in doing so.

I thought I was the only one. I just don't have the desire to listen to the CD. I wish I had, but... no.

operafantomet wrote:

SenorSwanky wrote:I still haven't listened to any of the new show other than the title song and Til I Hear You Sing, and I don't have much interest in doing so.

I thought I was the only one. I just don't have the desire to listen to the CD. I wish I had, but... no.

I listened last night after heavy initial reluctance and now I want those few hours of my life back. Not even the music is that great in this show. In all honesty, even if I weren't a Phantom fan, I really do think I would say this is one of ALW's worst scores to date. I know the man has recycled in previous scores but not to this extent...all his works from Sunset onwards are in it, with quite more than 'just a few references' to Phantom (e.g. 'Dear Old Friend' is almost entirely based around the concluding notes of 'Angel of Music'). With an atrocious book, trite lyrics and a disappointing score, I really do wonder how this will succeed.

Also the sequel made me *dislike* the Phantom and pity Raoul. I'm sure that's not the reaction the writers intended to elicit from their audience. And if I hear the words 'beauuuuuuuuuutiful' or souls being 'whole' again for at least another few weeks I may scream.

And if I hear the words 'beauuuuuuuuuutiful' or souls being 'whole' again for at least another few weeks I may scream.

Scorp, that was so beautifully put, you made my soul whole again.

Scorp wrote:

operafantomet wrote:

SenorSwanky wrote:I still haven't listened to any of the new show other than the title song and Til I Hear You Sing, and I don't have much interest in doing so.

I thought I was the only one. I just don't have the desire to listen to the CD. I wish I had, but... no.

I listened last night after heavy initial reluctance and now I want those few hours of my life back. Not even the music is that great in this show. In all honesty, even if I weren't a Phantom fan, I really do think I would say this is one of ALW's worst scores to date. I know the man has recycled in previous scores but not to this extent...all his works from Sunset onwards are in it, with quite more than 'just a few references' to Phantom (e.g. 'Dear Old Friend' is almost entirely based around the concluding notes of 'Angel of Music'). With an atrocious book, trite lyrics and a disappointing score, I really do wonder how this will succeed.

Also the sequel made me *dislike* the Phantom and pity Raoul. I'm sure that's not the reaction the writers intended to elicit from their audience. And if I hear the words 'beauuuuuuuuuutiful' or souls being 'whole' again for at least another few weeks I may scream.

Part of me wants to listen to the whole thing out of morbid curiosity, but so far between what I've heard of the plot and music I just can't bring myself to do it. Maybe when the initial hubbub dies down I'll find the courage...

And I agree about the Phantom and Raoul, Scorp. The Phantom may have been a murderous stalker in the original, but it was acknowledged how fundamentally screwed up he was. LND wants to portray him as a nice guy, even though if you look over the plot synopsis he's really a self-pitying, self-absorbed jerka**. As for Raoul, it's been suggested elsewhere he turned to drink and neglected his marriage because he knew/suspected Christine was unfaithful. Given all the trouble he went to for her, I'd say he has a darn good reason to be bitter.

~LCD