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Love Never Dies - all views allowed

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Post  AlwaysChristine Tue Jun 18, 2013 2:41 pm

Louise Fribo with Love Never Dies
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zWVvzUp4A0c
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Post  Scorp Sun Jun 23, 2013 9:32 am

operafantomet wrote:So, after the POTO concert Ronacher did last year they've decided to do LND this autumn. If judging by the POTO concert, expect a great orchestra and good cast paired with straaaaange, costumeless staging.

http://www.thatsmusical.de/magazin/wien-love-never-dies-konzertant-und-mamma-mia-a101558.html

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Post  Scorp Mon Jul 01, 2013 8:22 pm

Totally standalone. Everyone buys tickets to see this standalone musical for its own merits.


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Love Never Dies - all views allowed - Page 30 Tumblr_mp9yiuZ2ac1qbh5p2o1_400



NOT.
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Post  operafantomet Wed Jul 31, 2013 7:51 am

I think they started to move away from the "standalone" concept in Australia. They realized it's too awkward. But the use of the original mask and "Phantom of the Opera 2" in Vienna is just way more awkward.
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Post  Scorp Sun Aug 11, 2013 12:11 pm

http://westend.broadwayworld.com/article/Lloyd-Webbers-LOVE-NEVER-DIES-to-Tour-UK-in-Early-2013-Bill-Kenwright-Production-Plan-Rumors-20120502

Now look at today's date.

Some friends of mine didn't believe me when I said this was all hot air and nothing more. Vindication is nice.
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Post  AlwaysChristine Fri Oct 18, 2013 11:09 am

Love Never Dies Vienna - in Concert - Sitzprobe:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aVEIMbh0gYM
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Post  Scorp Sun Jan 05, 2014 10:17 pm

Two bad ideas and the results:

Length of Spiderman Broadway run (scheduled to open on 18 Feb 2010) - 3 years; didn't officially open until 2011.

Length of Paint Never Dries Broadway run (scheduled to open on 11 November 2010) - 0 years; never previewed, let alone opened.

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Post  Bric Sat Mar 15, 2014 12:51 am

VIDEO INTERVIEW
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Post  Phantomasc Tue Apr 29, 2014 6:12 pm

I saw The Phantom of the Opera when I was 12, and I heard the Original London Cast Recording of Love Never Dies when I was 16. By then my life had gone through some MAJOR changes. For one thing my Dad died 2.75 months after I saw The Phantom of the Opera on stage (believe it or not) and my life was continuing to get worse, so my personality like the characters in "Love Never Dies" changed with life. What I'm trying to say is "Misery loves company" especially from close friends. When I was 13 I had read "The Phantom of Manhattan" so it was not a surprise to me when Christine died. Sad!

In a class called "Working with Young Children" I learned that If a child is born less than a year into a marriage it most likely falls apart, which contributes WHY Christine chooses the Phantom. Furthermore, Gustave's attraction to music, and also having the same concept of beauty as the Phantom, can be explained by the existence of the Hobby Gene. This means that because both of his parents like music, he is more likely to as well.

Also gambling was popular among rich people during the time that the Phantom of the Opera was set. This would most likely result in a lower income, which would put stress on Raoul and Christine's marriage, Which would contribute to WHY Christine chooses the Phantom. Raoul in the original novel is immature and immature people are impulsive, and do things like drink too much, and gamble. I know that the dates between "Love Never Dies" and the auction at the beginning of "The Phantom of the Opera are correct because alcoholism causes premature aging, by reducing the amount of collagen, (which is what makes your skin look young) by reducing amount of the antioxidant vitamin A which is important in slowing down the signs of aging I might have learned about the connection between alcoholism and premature aging in 9th Grade Health Class.

But what Meg said before she shot her sounded JUST like I was feeling by the time I was 16. (added to that my relationship with my sister had gone tough the same stages as Meg and Christine's in "Love Never Dies" the Australian production in the past eight years at the time) but I HADN'T killed anybody. Why? Because our undying love we've had since we were children, for our family (including pets) friends, jobs,our favorite media, hobbies, and interests, and ourselves enables us not to change when change is making our world fall apart around us, even over a period as long as ten years. We are the same people we always were because love never dies that's what misery causing change taught me,and "Love Never Dies" affirmed. When I saw the DVD The blocking for "Please Miss Giry I Want to go Back" made it look like Meg MEANT to shoot Christine. Also she is bipolar and has these symptoms:

1. Feeling unusually "high" and optimistic OR extremely irritable
2. Unrealistic, grandiose beliefs about one's abilities or powers
3. Sleeping very little, but feeling extremely energetic
4. Racing thoughts; jumping quickly from one idea to the next
5. Impaired judgment and impulsiveness
6. Acting recklessly without thinking about the consequences
7. Delusions and hallucinations (in severe cases)

I now know why I didn't kill, because I got the emotional support and love Meg didn't get from Love Never Dies, and with out it I definitely wouldn't be where I am right now.


It took me over three years to find out that Love Never Dies made perfect sense. Very Happy In fact I was the Phan LEAST likely to LOVE Love Never Dies  because I used The Phantom of the Opera to escape from my problems,  Love Never Dies made me DEAL with them, because it is not  romanticism like The Phantom of the Opera  is.  confused  The fact is the changes on the characters ended up not bothering so much because I was interested in Criminology, and Psychology, and Adoption, (thus the information about the Hobby Gene) and Child Development; I had separately, before Love Never Dies came out, (I don't know if most Phans share these interests with me, or not.)  and it helped me like Love Never Dies because it stimulated me intellectually to find the truth behind the story, and because it's a great story to begin with.

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Post  Bric Wed Apr 30, 2014 10:56 am

I'm sorry you had such a bad time of it. I can see how you see parallels with Meg's problems.

For me, however, it's not that the things that happened in LND couldn't have happened.
It is that they shouldn't have happened.

Just one reason it should not have happened is that now that the show has reached a fair number of people with the DVD release, more and more audience members and prospective audience members assume that THIS version---- with an overwrought if not severely disturbed Meg; a drunken Raoul who uses his wife as the stakes, winner take all, when he gambles with her lover; a Phantom who shows no sign of the beginnings of redemption that made us care about him in the Final Lair in POTO; a Christine, who has to go through the same "romantic triangle" yet again, and gets killed this time; and a who's-the-daddy subplot----is the way it is, it what happens to the characters after several years.

All the other possibilities of what-happened-next that were left to audiences's imaginations are increasingly overwritten by what happens in LND, and I think that is a shame!

I'm not making it up. I see evidence of this attitude on Twitter every day.
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Post  Phantomasc Wed Apr 30, 2014 6:16 pm

I agree that the events in Love Never Dies should NOT have happened to the characters, but I still LOVE LND, and I think it needs a sequel, so we know that the remaining characters are going to be OK. Andrew Lloyd Webber needs to write it.

People can use their own imaginations if they WANT to want to, in fact, I'm writing A POTO Christmas story for Christmas of 2014, about Christine and Roul's first Christmas together, right after Count Philppe dies, and people change their Christmas traditions after someone dies. I'm writing this story because I want to be able to spend Christmas with these characters who I consider part of my family,because I DON'T have time to read every work of Phan Phicton to see which include Christmas scenes. Why are people acting like LND can be the only sequel to The Phantom of the Opera if they don't like it?

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Post  Bric Fri May 02, 2014 12:04 pm

We love what we love. I can't fault anyone for loving something.

I don't care at all how many fan fiction or novel sequels there are. People have been writing them since Phantom opened. LND is, however, a direct, OFFICIAL stage musical sequel to Lloyd Webber's Phantom of the Opera and is a whole different kind of thing. It has been welcomed as canon with open arms by some Phantom fans, something that never could happen with sequels in other genre.

One sequel to the ALW show was one too many.
Angels and Ministers of Grace defend us from any more of them.
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Post  NightRachel Fri May 02, 2014 1:32 pm

Bric wrote:We love what we love. I can't fault anyone for loving something.

I don't care at all how many fan fiction or novel sequels there are. People have been writing them since Phantom opened. LND is, however, a direct, OFFICIAL stage musical sequel to Lloyd Webber's Phantom of the Opera and is a whole different kind of thing. It has been welcomed as canon with open arms by some Phantom fans, something that never could happen with sequels in other genre.

One sequel to the ALW show was one too many.
Angels and Ministers of Grace defend us from any more of them.

Exactly! Totally agree with all the above!
Well said, Bric.  Smile 
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Post  Phantomasc Fri May 02, 2014 4:57 pm

I wasn't talking about how many Phan Phiction stories there are, the point of my last post was how many Phan Phiction stories there CAN BE, if people just CHOOSE to ignore Love Never Dies, and write their own sequel. and judging by Whisphers In The Dark- Phantom's lullaby Andrew won't sue anybody for doing so.

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Post  Scorp Fri May 02, 2014 7:46 pm

TBUGoth wrote:I wasn't talking about how many Phan Phiction stories there are, the point of my last post was how many Phan Phiction stories there CAN BE, if people just CHOOSE to ignore Love Never Dies...

I'm not interested in "phan phiction" and Paint Never Dries even less so. I don't like it because, apart from the fact that it shows absolutely no respect for the story, characters, logic and integrity of the original Phantom, it purports to be, as Bric said, an "official" sequel that NO-ONE is allowed to ignore. Also, the terribly managed and usually contradictory PR involved with the show is vomit-inducing.

But to say people can "choose" to ignore LND is ridiculous. I try my best to do everything to avoid it, but the desperation of ALW means that it is repeatedly and endlessly shoved down our throats ad nauseum. It regularly parasitises off anything Phantom related, which makes me dislike it even more.


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Post  LadyCDaae Fri May 02, 2014 8:47 pm

Scorp wrote:

I'm not interested in "phan phiction" and Paint Never Dries even less so. I don't like it because, apart from the fact that it shows absolutely no respect for the story, characters, logic and integrity of the original Phantom, it purports to be, as Bric said, an "official" sequel that NO-ONE is allowed to ignore. Also, the terribly managed and usually contradictory PR involved with the show is vomit-inducing.

But to say people can "choose" to ignore LND is ridiculous. I try my best to do everything to avoid it, but the desperation of ALW means that it is repeatedly and endlessly shoved down our throats ad nauseum. It regularly parasitises off anything Phantom related, which makes me dislike it even more.


It's like the Star Wars prequels.  The fans that don't like them would probably happily ignore their existence, if George Lucas didn't insist on trying to retrofit their continuity into the original movies (re-dubbing Boba Fett's voice and wedging Hayden Christiansen into the Force Ghost party at the end of Jedi, for example).

That said, I find the very nature of PotO makes it rather easy for me to ignore LND as far as continuity goes. The more I see of the former, the more I'm convinced the latter is a completely implausible continuation of the story and characters.

~LCD

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Post  Phantomasc Fri May 02, 2014 11:03 pm

I meant you can ignore the STORY of Love Never Dies. You can't avoid it because people are trying to sell you stuff.

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Post  Scorp Mon May 05, 2014 11:12 pm

TBUGoth wrote:I meant you can ignore the STORY of Love Never Dies. You can't avoid it because people are trying to sell you stuff.

Ah, gotcha. Well yes, the story can be easily ignored -- and should be!
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Post  Phantomasc Sat May 10, 2014 5:05 am

Why?

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Post  Raphael Sun May 11, 2014 1:54 pm

I believe the consensus among phans who don't like LND is that all the development and emotional arcs that the Phantom and Christine go through in PotO are nullified by the events of LND - essentially making everything they went through pointless since they're back to square one and retreading old ground. Other characters (like Raoul, Meg, and Mme Giry) exhibit traits they didn't have previously - they are basically twisted to fit into the story LND is trying to tell.

For me, LND is a checklist of all the worst clichés of fan fiction given "legitimacy" by ALW slapping his name on it.

R.
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Post  NightRachel Sun May 11, 2014 1:58 pm

Ah, very well said, Raphael! Couldn't agree more!  Smile 
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Post  LadyCDaae Sun May 11, 2014 2:25 pm

Raphael wrote:I believe the consensus among phans who don't like LND is that all the development and emotional arcs that the Phantom and Christine go through in PotO are nullified by the events of LND - essentially making everything they went through pointless since they're back to square one and retreading old ground. Other characters (like Raoul, Meg, and Mme Giry) exhibit traits they didn't have previously - they are basically twisted to fit into the story LND is trying to tell.

For me, LND is a checklist of all the worst clichés of fan fiction given "legitimacy" by ALW slapping his name on it.

R.

Couldn't have put it better myself.  For me PotO is ultimately a story of the redemptive power of mercy and love--Erik experiences compassion, and as a result learns to be compassionate himself.  That's a very powerful message: that what we do has a transformative effect on others, and that even the most lost among us has it within themselves to change.  Why would I want a story that comes along and says "No sorry, we take that all back"?

~LCD

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Post  Phantomasc Mon May 12, 2014 3:29 pm

Because Erik has to be able to remain "transformed" no matter how bad life gets, and the ending of Love Never Dies implies he's able to do that.

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Post  LadyCDaae Mon May 12, 2014 5:53 pm

When is the Phantom's life ever bad in LND?  When we first see him he's wealthy, successful, in a place where he can be himself and where several people are supporting him.  His only problem is that he's still clinging to a ten-years-gone relationship, one that ended because he was a coward and ran out on after a one-night-stand.  He bullies the woman he claims to care about and ignores the two women who have put up with him all these years, and they roll over and accept it because he's such a special snowflake.  He gets away with threatening a child because he turns out to be the father.  He reduces the love of his life to a prize in a bet, and gets away with that as well.  Then, after his selfishness and idiocy have gotten an innocent person killed in a profoundly stupid manner, he gets a hug from the boy whose family he's just entirely destroyed.

Forgiveness is not the same as permissiveness, nor is redemption a release from consequence.  Love Never Dies does not understand this.  It thinks it's about a tragically doomed love, when really it's about a self-absorbed jerk who never suffers for his behavior (and no, Christine's death does not count, because that presumes her own suffering is somehow less than his own.  She's a person, not a toy that he can't play with anymore because he accidentally broke it).

~LCD

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Post  Phantomasc Mon May 12, 2014 9:07 pm

LadyCDaae wrote:When is the Phantom's life ever bad in LND?  When we first see him he's wealthy, successful, in a place where he can be himself and where several people are supporting him.  His only problem is that he's still clinging to a ten-years-gone relationship, one that ended because he was a coward and ran out on after a one-night-stand.  He bullies the woman he claims to care about and ignores the two women who have put up with him all these years, and they roll over and accept it because he's such a special snowflake.  He gets away with threatening a child because he turns out to be the father.  He reduces the love of his life to a prize in a bet, and gets away with that as well.  Then, after his selfishness and idiocy have gotten an innocent person killed in a profoundly stupid manner, he gets a hug from the boy whose family he's just entirely destroyed.

Forgiveness is not the same as permissiveness, nor is redemption a release from consequence.  Love Never Dies does not understand this.  It thinks it's about a tragically doomed love, when really it's about a self-absorbed jerk who never suffers for his behavior (and no, Christine's death does not count, because that presumes her own suffering is somehow less than his own.  She's a person, not a toy that he can't play with anymore because he accidentally broke it).

~LCD


If you want to blame someone to what happened in LND blame Christine's Father's DOCTOR. If Christine's Father hadn't HAD TO promise to send her the Angel of Music, because his doctor gave up on curing him, NOT ERIK! Mad 

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Post  Bric Tue May 13, 2014 9:06 am

I blame no one but Andrew Lloyd Webber.
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Post  Phantomasc Tue May 13, 2014 2:48 pm

Now that Andrew is brought up, saying that Love Never Dies SHOULDN'T have been written is saying that he SHOULDN'T have the human right of freedom of expression because his version would be more legitimate than any other version. that is Criminal speech.

http://ukhumanrightsblog.com/incorporated-rights/articles-index/article-10/

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Post  Bric Wed May 14, 2014 10:00 am

TBUGoth wrote:Now that Andrew is brought up, saying that Love Never Dies SHOULDN'T have been written is saying that he SHOULDN'T have the human right of freedom of expression because his version would be more legitimate than any other version. that is Criminal speech.

http://ukhumanrightsblog.com/incorporated-rights/articles-index/article-10/

Nonsense.

He had the legal and "human" right to write Love Never Dies, and he wrote it.
Not everything a person has a right to do is a GOOD IDEA. A lot of things that I or you or Lloyd Webber have the right to do could be very bad ideas indeed for one reason or another.
Writing and producing Love Never Dies was a bad idea for several reason, including its negative effect on perception of the characters and its poor performance compared to POTO and his more successful and better shows. As far as I am concerned, and I am not alone, it should never been written.

Don't throw that "Criminal Speech" crap at me because you either don't understand what I wrote or are desperate to find some way to defend LND and put down those who dislike it.
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Post  Phantomasc Wed May 14, 2014 5:29 pm

TBUGoth wrote:I saw The Phantom of the Opera when I was 12, and I heard the Original London Cast Recording of Love Never Dies when I was 16. By then my life had gone through some MAJOR changes. For one thing my Dad died 2.75 months after I saw The Phantom of the Opera on stage (believe it or not) and my life was continuing to get worse, so my personality like the characters in "Love Never Dies" changed with life. What I'm trying to say is "Misery loves company" especially from close friends. When I was 13 I had read "The Phantom of Manhattan" so it was not a surprise to me when Christine died. Sad!

In a class called "Working with Young Children" I learned that If a child is born less than a year into a marriage it most likely falls apart, which contributes WHY Christine chooses the Phantom. Furthermore, Gustave's attraction to music, and also having the same concept of beauty as the Phantom, can be explained by the existence of the Hobby Gene. This means that because both of his parents like music, he is more likely to as well.

Also gambling was popular among rich people during the time that the Phantom of the Opera was set. This would most likely result in a lower income, which would put stress on Raoul and Christine's marriage, Which would contribute to WHY Christine chooses the Phantom. Raoul in the original novel is immature and immature people are impulsive, and do things like drink too much, and gamble. I know that the dates between "Love Never Dies" and the auction at the beginning of "The Phantom of the Opera are correct because alcoholism causes premature aging, by reducing the amount of collagen, (which is what makes your skin look young) by reducing amount of the antioxidant vitamin A which is important in slowing down the signs of aging I might have learned about the connection between alcoholism and premature aging in 9th Grade Health Class.

But what Meg said before she shot her sounded JUST like I was feeling by the time I was 16. (added to that my relationship with my sister had gone tough the same stages as Meg and Christine's in "Love Never Dies" the Australian production in the past eight years at the time) but I HADN'T killed anybody. Why? Because our undying love we've had since we were children, for our family (including pets) friends, jobs,our favorite media, hobbies, and interests, and ourselves enables us not to change when change is making our world fall apart around us, even over a period as long as ten years. We are the same people we always were because love never dies that's what misery causing change taught me,and "Love Never Dies" affirmed. When I saw the DVD The blocking for "Please Miss Giry I Want to go Back" made it look like Meg MEANT to shoot Christine. Also she is bipolar and has these symptoms:

1. Feeling unusually "high" and optimistic OR extremely irritable
2. Unrealistic, grandiose beliefs about one's abilities or powers
3. Sleeping very little, but feeling extremely energetic
4. Racing thoughts; jumping quickly from one idea to the next
5. Impaired judgment and impulsiveness
6. Acting recklessly without thinking about the consequences
7. Delusions and hallucinations (in severe cases)

I now know why I didn't kill, because I got the emotional support and love Meg didn't get from Love Never Dies, and with out it I definitely wouldn't be where I am right now.

This is how I respond to people who JUST dislike LND, saying "it should never have been written" is a COMPLETELY a different matter, because it violates Article 10 of the Convention,  permissible exception (4) The protection of the reputation and rights of others. The reason that reputation and is crossed out  is I'm NOT bringing this up because Phans dislike LND. Why did you put quotes around human when referring to Andrew, do you consider him not human?  pale affraid

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Post  Bric Wed May 14, 2014 11:41 pm

I apologize for misreading your reason.

Accusing anyone who says the show should never been written of "Criminal speech" is still nonsense. We all have free speech rights, at least in the free world. Lloyd Webber had a right to write Love Never Dies, and others of us have a right to say it should never been written!
Bric
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