Re: The 2004 movie (ALW version)

IamErik771 Tue Mar 13, 2012 5:58 pm

Raphael wrote:
Paula74 wrote:I was going through some old New York Times articles leading up to Phantom's transfer to Broadway and the fight with Equity over Sarah Brightman's casting...and came across this tidbit.

According to sources close to Mr. Lloyd Webber, he is considering a lucrative offer from Steven Spielberg to produce a film of the show and bypass Broadway altogether. That move would considerably upset the Shubert Organization, which has been paying for an extensive renovation of the Majestic specifically for the show.

That's one movie rumor I never heard...and it's interesting to think of how things would've played out if there had been no Broadway production at all and just a movie produced back then.
That somewhat matches up with a newspaper clipping I have from around the time of the beginning of the London production. A PotO film adaptation featuring Crawford, Brightman, and Barton and directed by Spielberg would have been great. Guaranteed to have been leaps and bounds better than Schumacher.

TAFKaR

Around the time the '04 movie was released, I vaguely remember reading something where ALW said the reason why he decided not to go with Spielberg was that Spielberg's proposed version would have differed too much from the stage show. Considering how different Schumacher's version ended up being, that thought scares me a bit. Then again, it's not as if ALW isn't known for twisting facts if he thinks it'll be helpful to his current project... so we may never know.

Scorp wrote:In other news, this film has made one website's top 10 of worst ever Anglo-American film adaptations of French novels: http://www.topito.com/top-pires-films-americains-adaptes-livres-francais

Gee, I wonder why? Laughing

I don't know any French, but could anyone post an approximate translation of what they said about it? (Also, I had no idea "Red Riding Hood" was based on a French novel... unless fairy/folk tales are counted as well? And I'm a bit surprised that none of the many, many bad film versions of Les Misérables made the list; then again, I doubt any of them messed with the source material anywhere near the degree that Anderson's The Three Musketeers or the '04 Phantom did.)

PhantomsGhost Tue Mar 13, 2012 8:34 pm

I remember that too.

I would have much preferred a Spielberg version than what we got.

I also remember around that time that Spielberg wanted to do an animated version of Cats, (I would have loved that) and didn't he also option the rights to the Susan Kay novel...?

**Raphael** Thu Mar 15, 2012 4:51 am

A Spielberg film adaptation was very early in the run. I don't recall how different it would have been. The script from the aborted 1990 attempt was *pretty* close while the late 90s version written by Ben Elton when the project was still with Warner Bros swerved WILDLY off course and thankfully it got dropped when ALW bought back the film rights.

I believe DreamWorks optioned the rights to Kay's novel years ago, but unfortunately that doesn't mean the project will ever get off the ground.

R.

ML6 Sun Mar 18, 2012 7:42 pm

Raphael wrote:A Spielberg film adaptation was very early in the run. I don't recall how different it would have been. The script from the aborted 1990 attempt was *pretty* close while the late 90s version written by Ben Elton when the project was still with Warner Bros swerved WILDLY off course and thankfully it got dropped when ALW bought back the film rights.

I believe DreamWorks optioned the rights to Kay's novel years ago, but unfortunately that doesn't mean the project will ever get off the ground.

R.

AM I READING THIS CORRECTLY: "Ben Elton"!?!

Wow. Thank god it never made it anywhere.

Scorp Wed Apr 25, 2012 5:39 pm

Well, that was odd. Sitting in a café minding my own business, when Minnie Driver comes in and asks me if I am some actor who I clearly am not. I behaved myself and did not to tell her what I thought of the 2004 film or her attempt at acting in it. A slightly better encounter than my previous one with Lord Andy, which was...pretty catastrophic.

**Raphael** Sat May 12, 2012 9:35 pm

ML6 wrote:AM I READING THIS CORRECTLY: "Ben Elton"!?!

Wow. Thank god it never made it anywhere.

Yeah, you read that right. And you're right to thank God. What little that was revealed about his script would make you rip your hair out in fury.

Scorp wrote:Well, that was odd. Sitting in a café minding my own business, when Minnie Driver comes in and asks me if I am some actor who I clearly am not. I behaved myself and did not to tell her what I thought of the 2004 film or her attempt at acting in it. A slightly better encounter than my previous one with Lord Andy, which was...pretty catastrophic.

You're a better man than I, Scorp Smile

R.

Story Teller Sun Jun 03, 2012 5:46 pm

Am I the only person who actually liked the film? I am still fairly young, so I don't know very much about singing, but I think that Emmanuelle Grey Rossum did a great job playing the part of Christine. Her cover of Think of Me is just astounding to me. Gerard Butler was actually very good in this film, and while others complain of his 'rough' voice, I think it worked well for this part since Erik did not have any professional training. I don't get why people complain about his age while a lot of people liked Ramin Karimloo in the 25th anniversary who is younger than Butler. I also don't think it wavers very much from the musical on Broadway. I watched the 25th anniversary and the movie film side by side and could find very few differences that weren't an a good add it, such as the flashbacks and the very end. I'm very happy that they explained how Erik was behind the mirror, how he made Carlotta sound like a toad.
I don't want anyone hating on this comment, but I won't mind people correcting me kindly and showing me how these things are bad.

Scorp Sun Jun 03, 2012 6:36 pm

Story Teller wrote:Am I the only person who actually liked the film? I am still fairly young, so I don't know very much about singing, but I think that Emmanuelle Grey Rossum did a great job playing the part of Christine. Her cover of Think of Me is just astounding to me. Gerard Butler was actually very good in this film, and while others complain of his 'rough' voice, I think it worked well for this part since Erik did not have any professional training. I don't get why people complain about his age while a lot of people liked Ramin Karimloo in the 25th anniversary who is younger than Butler. I also don't think it wavers very much from the musical on Broadway. I watched the 25th anniversary and the movie film side by side and could find very few differences that weren't an a good add it, such as the flashbacks and the very end. I'm very happy that they explained how Erik was behind the mirror, how he made Carlotta sound like a toad.
I don't want anyone hating on this comment, but I won't mind people correcting me kindly and showing me how these things are bad.

I thought the overall feel of the 25th anniversary event at the Albert Hall was rather different from seeing the original Hal Prince production, so I wouldn't use it to form your opinion on the warhorse that's been going for 25 years.

I strongly suspect that if you had known Phantom before the 2004 film (I assume you didn't), you would have been extremely disappointed.

I've long been meaning to write a huge essay on why I think this film sucks, but there are so many things I don't like that I'd need a huge amount of time and patience (plus I'd probably need to watch it again, and I don't think I can put myself through it).

It's not just that the cast are inadequate both vocally and in terms of their acting. It's the whole design, direction and execution. Any traces of Gothic horror, mystery, darkness and psychological complexity are gone, and have been replaced by garishness, kitsch and general bad taste of the chick flick kind. I feel a lot of the action/adventure elements were lost too and made the film drag. Some of the characterisations are completely off. And I mourn the complete lack of regard to historicity, which is a big appeal of the original Phantom to me.

I agree that Ramin Karimloo is miscast though. I don't think a huge deal of his (untrained) voice, though I'd take it over Gerard Butler's any day. And I thought Butler was too young for the Phantom, so Ramin is even worse in that respect (not his fault, but yeah).

Have you read the original novel or seen the original film starring Lon Chaney?

Story Teller Sun Jun 03, 2012 11:03 pm

I am halfway through reading the original novel. I grew up hearing the original cast version on CD, and I didn't see the 2004 movie version until after I saw the Las Vegas production since I wasn't allowed to see the movie back when it first came out.

Scorp Mon Jun 04, 2012 9:43 am

Story Teller wrote:I am halfway through reading the original novel. I grew up hearing the original cast version on CD, and I didn't see the 2004 movie version until after I saw the Las Vegas production since I wasn't allowed to see the movie back when it first came out.

I find it interesting and unusual that you grew up listening to the OLC and found the film soundtrack's vocals acceptable. Really?! You say you were impressed by Emmy's 'Think of Me', but I thought it was a voice that would be laughed out of an opera house, certainly not something that warranted eliciting accolades like 'stupenda'. Her voice cracks numerous times, despite her having ample opportunities to re-record and for the mixing team to fix this, and the cadenza at the end is absolutely pathetic.

What did you think of Butler's voice? His was the worst.

What I find sad is that ALW clearly didn't like the leads' singing either yet went along with the whole thing. At several of the premiere nights worldwide when the film came out, he was reported to have asked fans what they thought of the vocals.

LadyCDaae Mon Jun 04, 2012 1:22 pm

What I find sad is that ALW clearly didn't like the leads' singing either yet went along with the whole thing. At several of the premiere nights worldwide when the film came out, he was reported to have asked fans what they thought of the vocals.

Really? I can easily believe he retracted his opinion of them after the fact (he does have a slight tendency to do that), but I'm surprised that he would knowingly endorse singers he knew at the time to be inferior.

...Then again, after the whole Sequel Which Does Not Exist debacle, maybe that's not so surprising.

Scorp Tue Jun 05, 2012 10:43 pm

LadyCDaae wrote:
What I find sad is that ALW clearly didn't like the leads' singing either yet went along with the whole thing. At several of the premiere nights worldwide when the film came out, he was reported to have asked fans what they thought of the vocals.

Really? I can easily believe he retracted his opinion of them after the fact (he does have a slight tendency to do that), but I'm surprised that he would knowingly endorse singers he knew at the time to be inferior.

...Then again, after the whole Sequel Which Does Not Exist debacle, maybe that's not so surprising.

He might have lost his marbles in the ideas department, but I think even he knows when vocals are not up to scratch. His only comments on Gerard at the time were: "Well, he had all the notes" and "He's a hunk, isn't he? They all seem to love him" (oh, plus the whole 'I always really wanted a rock tenor' nonsense, which is clearly BS if he fired Steve Harley and replaced him with Michael Crawford). I think that says enough. In his interview for a newspaper magazine supplement special devoted to the film on the week of its release in the UK, which I own, he says (it probably wasn't intended to sound bad, but IMHO this is the effect it has, amusingly), referring to the fact the film was entirely funded by RUG and did not get studio backing: "there was no money for talent". Laughing

He also said in that interview that he was in a hurry for the film to be made because RUG had major debts that needed repaying and he thought the film would help this (I don't even know if it did; did it even recoup in the UK/US??). All this happened AT THE TIME of the film being promoted. And the questioning of what fans thought of the vocals I learnt from those fans themselves (those fans actually liking the film and not perhaps realising that ALW was uncertain about it and seeking reassurance) when they posted on message boards at the time. Other official statements at the time sound very confused/contradictory. Like how the film is supposedly an "excellent documentation of the show" while at the same time being a "different animal entirely" or something like that. Huh??

It's still possible he loved Schumacher's direction at the time, which wouldn't surprise me since he clearly doesn't have a clue what makes the show work, but it's also clear enough to me that he knew he was foisting a product on the world that he knew was not very good in the vocals department. The fact he hurried the film's shooting and release so he could pay debts, as opposed to the way Cameron has taken his time to ensure he can get the people he really, really wants for the Les Mis film, being more obviously concerned about its posterity and artistic value, is one reason why I respect Sir Cameron much more.

Usually when Schumacher and ALW were interviewed together, questions re the casting were answered only by Schumacher, Andrew keeping silent and looking a bit uncomfortable.

operafantomet Tue Jun 05, 2012 10:53 pm

Scorp wrote:Usually when Schumacher and ALW were interviewed together, questions re the casting were answered only by Schumacher, Andrew keeping silent and looking a bit uncomfortable.

Except ALW's kept repeating that "Emmy was born to play Christine... The movie took so long to come together because she had to become old enough for it", or something like that. Razz

Scorp Tue Jun 05, 2012 10:57 pm

operafantomet wrote:
Scorp wrote:Usually when Schumacher and ALW were interviewed together, questions re the casting were answered only by Schumacher, Andrew keeping silent and looking a bit uncomfortable.
Except ALW's kept repeating that "Emmy was born to play Christine... The movie took so long to come together because she had to become old enough for it", or something like that.

Most recently ALW lamented that he only discovered Anna (?) O'Byrne or whatever she's called in LND Australia, because if he had known of her earlier, he says, he'd have wanted HER to play Christine in the 2004 film. Not lying, this is what he said.

BTW out of pure Schadenfreude, I must gloat here about the state of Gerard Butler's appearance at the moment. He appeared on my TV screen on some programme about Hollywood the other day and looked a right mess. Wrinkles, grey hair, looking drunk and sleep-deprived...so much for young and sexy. Not ageing well.

AlwaysChristine Wed Jun 06, 2012 9:01 am

Scorp wrote:
operafantomet wrote:
Scorp wrote:Usually when Schumacher and ALW were interviewed together, questions re the casting were answered only by Schumacher, Andrew keeping silent and looking a bit uncomfortable.
Except ALW's kept repeating that "Emmy was born to play Christine... The movie took so long to come together because she had to become old enough for it", or something like that.

Most recently ALW lamented that he only discovered Anna (?) O'Byrne or whatever she's called in LND Australia, because if he had known of her earlier, he says, he'd have wanted HER to play Christine in the 2004 film. Not lying, this is what he said.

BTW out of pure Schadenfreude, I must gloat here about the state of Gerard Butler's appearance at the moment. He appeared on my TV screen on some programme about Hollywood the other day and looked a right mess. Wrinkles, grey hair, looking drunk and sleep-deprived...so much for young and sexy. Not ageing well.

Oh that makes the film better....Anna as Christine....she is Christine! I like her very much!

Sapphire Sun Jun 10, 2012 10:17 am

The 2004 movie is what helped remind me of my love for the music and story of POTO, which was based on (what I think were) the Original London Cast recordings I heard in class. I've never seen a live performance, but would love to someday.

At the time, I was so excited to see the film that I wasn't really concerned with the quality of singing. I was also naieve about music theory and singing techniques. Still am actually... So, I enjoyed it then. Now I'm not so sure.

I like the general atmosphere, especially during Il Muto and Masquerade...but I guess to me it sounds like the Phantom in the movie is yelling rather than singing most of the time. *I don't want to use names* Embarassed

operafantomet Tue Jul 10, 2012 1:53 pm

What I find interesting about the "Phantom in 15 minutes" clip on YouTube:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3u_v5xY-aTI

...is that almost everyone comment on "this is how the movie should have been", while no-one has written "Man, I prefer the 2004 movie to this!"...:

"Also the start of this video, Cant stop replaying it! I think, if they were ever to re-make the movie (with good actors this time!) that would be a beautiful way to begin before the auction!"

"Thank you for sharing! Its amazing how a short video has more worth to me than a full length movie of this show, despite not understanding a word of German!"

"I love this. For no other reason, than because we finally get a REAL Masquerade scene. I think that was one of my biggest disappointments in the movie."

"AMAZING! OUTSTANDING! I wish the film had been done like this!"

"wow, brilliant. If only the movie were filmed like this!!"

"AMAZING! if only the film was like this i wish RUG would film it! - like this i meen"

"If the movie was filmed with this kind of exciting dynamic, it would have been so much better..."

"Imagine how awesome it would be if the filmed the movie like this!!!!"

https://www.youtube.com/all_comments?v=3u_v5xY-aTI

phan101 Fri Aug 10, 2012 10:31 pm

operafantomet wrote:What I find interesting about the "Phantom in 15 minutes" clip on YouTube:

...is that almost everyone comment on "this is how the movie should have been", while no-one has written "Man, I prefer the 2004 movie to this!"...:

"Also the start of this video, Cant stop replaying it! I think, if they were ever to re-make the movie (with good actors this time!) that would be a beautiful way to begin before the auction!"

"Thank you for sharing! Its amazing how a short video has more worth to me than a full length movie of this show, despite not understanding a word of German!"

"I love this. For no other reason, than because we finally get a REAL Masquerade scene. I think that was one of my biggest disappointments in the movie."

"AMAZING! OUTSTANDING! I wish the film had been done like this!"

"wow, brilliant. If only the movie were filmed like this!!"

"AMAZING! if only the film was like this i wish RUG would film it! - like this i meen"

"If the movie was filmed with this kind of exciting dynamic, it would have been so much better..."

"Imagine how awesome it would be if the filmed the movie like this!!!!"

Oh wow! I can see my comment there! Very Happy

I agree, the fact that those 15 minutes are more appreciated than a movie says it all really!

AlwaysChristine Sat Aug 11, 2012 4:41 pm

Phantom in 15 minutes is amazing!!!

purplehaze93 Wed Nov 21, 2012 10:23 pm

Thomas is fantastic! Such a cool video, thanks for sharing!

LadyCDaae Mon Nov 26, 2012 1:20 am

So, I'm revisiting this movie after something like seven and a half years because I'm working on a video review of it. You know how when you watch your favorite movie, you keep finding things to love about it? This is like the opposite of that--I keep finding things that piss me off.

~Emmy Rossssum's posture in the opening scene. She doesn't carry herself at all like a dancer or a singer.
~Why does Christine begin the title song cadenza before the Phantom starts the "sing for me" lines? Doesn't that kind of destroy the whole point of that bit? (Then again, maybe the Phantom just couldn't hear her over the blaring eighties rock. Huge fail on the sound editors' parts.)
~Miranda Richardson's accent is not only horrid, she can't even sustain it while she's singing.
~The "Il Muto" makeup is awful. Blue and green lipstick, seriously? And Carlotta's face has next to no shading or definition--she'd probably look like one of the Wire's victims from the house.

And I'm only halfway through the film...Lord help me.

~LCD

purplehaze93 Mon Nov 26, 2012 2:40 am

LadyCDaae wrote:

And I'm only halfway through the film...Lord help me.

~LCD

You should probably just quit while your ahead!

Devon Sun Dec 02, 2012 12:51 am

I was talking with my husband last night and saw a trailer for the new Les Mis film that's coming out on Christmas this year. I am still so pleased to see that Hugh Jackman is in it...about time!

I love Gerard Butler (I actually think he's funny in some other films) and his portrayal of the Phantom wasn't completely horrible. However, after hearing Hugh Jackman sing I'm thinking...WTF?! He is trained and has a wonderful voice.....Why didn't HE get that role?

Ahhh well, at least he's in Les Mis. :-)

Scorp Sun Dec 02, 2012 10:34 am

Devon wrote:I was talking with my husband last night and saw a trailer for the new Les Mis film that's coming out on Christmas this year. I am still so pleased to see that Hugh Jackman is in it...about time!

I love Gerard Butler (I actually think he's funny in some other films) and his portrayal of the Phantom wasn't completely horrible. However, after hearing Hugh Jackman sing I'm thinking...WTF?! He is trained and has a wonderful voice.....Why didn't HE get that role?

Ahhh well, at least he's in Les Mis. :-)

They were interested in casting him but he wasn't available (neither was Anne Hathaway) and RUG couldn't afford him either (it was done without the backing of a major studio, which was hugely disadvantageous to the film). ALW wanted to rush the film out because RUG had major debts at the time that he wanted to pay off. Unfortunately, this was at the expense of anything decent to watch in the final product.

I am hoping the Les Mis film will be fantastic. It's got a lot going for it (minus Russell Crowe...) and the major studio backing it has is a huge plus. There's even Oscars talk, which this piece of crap never had besides a few nominations that were obviously never going to materialise into wins. If LM succeeds, I hope ALW will seethe with rage as he watches the nearest thing to Phantom in terms of appeal, popularity, success and genre completely pwn his own show at the cinema...especially since he doesn't even like Miz and was hugely critical of it when it first premiered in the theatre. I want him to have a tantrum and realise the disgusting error of his ways eight years ago.

Twisted Evil

LadyCDaae Sun Dec 09, 2012 3:37 pm

purplehaze93 wrote:
LadyCDaae wrote:

And I'm only halfway through the film...Lord help me.

~LCD

You should probably just quit while your ahead!

Yeah, probably, but on I soldier anyway. This movie definitely has not worn well for me, and I didn't like it to begin with--the supporting cast voices are barely serviceable (excepting Margaret Preece, of course), Schumacher's direction is unfocused, and all the "opera" scenes look like amateur night (Why are there always huge crowds of people in the wings? I learned in high school drama club you don't hang around backstage unless you're about to go on or you have a job to do!).

At least we have the RAH concert....it may not be perfect, but at least it has some sense of what Phantom can be.

~LCD

Scorp Wed Dec 26, 2012 3:44 pm

In light of the hype and praise the Les Mis film has been getting, I have been sorely reminded about how poor an adaptation this film was. I have no idea why this has been stored on my computer for so long considering that I never listen to it. I decided today some action was finally required:

The 2004 movie (ALW version) - Page 7 Byebyemoviesoundtrack_zps26d1d0ff

The 2004 movie (ALW version) - Page 7 Byebyemoviesoundtrack_zps26d1d0ff

I shall stick the CD itself on Amazon Marketplace. Please don't buy it.

ML6 Wed Dec 26, 2012 6:06 pm

I think it is time to rid myself of my copy as well. (And the burned copies of the foreign film soundtrack.)

Paula74 Wed Dec 26, 2012 6:51 pm

ML6 wrote:I think it is time to rid myself of my copy as well. (And the burned copies of the foreign film soundtrack.)

I keep trying to get rid of mine, but it won't leave without a fight.

I tossed it in the trash about two years ago. My boyfriend, assuming anything Phantom is valuable to me, rescued it. A few months later, I tossed it again. His father saw it in the bag and pulled it out because he assumed it was tossed by mistake. When he wasn't looking, I tossed it back in the bag. Either I missed the bag or the bag tore on the way to the garage because this summer, I found the remains of it in the backyard.

ML6 Thu Dec 27, 2012 11:26 pm

Paula74 wrote:
ML6 wrote:I think it is time to rid myself of my copy as well. (And the burned copies of the foreign film soundtrack.)

I keep trying to get rid of mine, but it won't leave without a fight.

I tossed it in the trash about two years ago. My boyfriend, assuming anything Phantom is valuable to me, rescued it. A few months later, I tossed it again. His father saw it in the bag and pulled it out because he assumed it was tossed by mistake. When he wasn't looking, I tossed it back in the bag. Either I missed the bag or the bag tore on the way to the garage because this summer, I found the remains of it in the backyard.

OH MY GOD. :O That CD is possessed!

Scorp Thu Jan 03, 2013 8:40 pm

Paula74 wrote:
ML6 wrote:I think it is time to rid myself of my copy as well. (And the burned copies of the foreign film soundtrack.)

I keep trying to get rid of mine, but it won't leave without a fight.

I tossed it in the trash about two years ago. My boyfriend, assuming anything Phantom is valuable to me, rescued it. A few months later, I tossed it again. His father saw it in the bag and pulled it out because he assumed it was tossed by mistake. When he wasn't looking, I tossed it back in the bag. Either I missed the bag or the bag tore on the way to the garage because this summer, I found the remains of it in the backyard.

It's cursed! I hope the remains of it have gone now...

Anyway, I ended up *losing* money on that offloaded soundtrack. Thanks to Amazon's fees, I ended up losing a quid! Guess that's what happens when something's that bad, you have to pay for someone to take it away. I really ought to have burned it for the pyromaniac pleasure of seeing it flames had I known I was going to be a bob short at the end.

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