Re: The 2004 movie (ALW version)

**Raphael** Wed Dec 29, 2010 11:07 pm

operafantomet wrote:Stage cast or not, they're made to imitate the English original, which by my standard is not good at all.

"I know you're well-trained and have been singing for years, but for the purposes of this recording, I want you to sound like crap."

Thanks again, Schumacher Evil or Very Mad

IamErik771 Thu Dec 30, 2010 6:42 pm

operafantomet wrote:
Scorp wrote:Whaaa? I'm confused. They've only just made a Japanese dub or did one exist all along and just not make it out onto CD (like the two French versions)? Not sure how much I want it though. The three Japan cast recordings of the stage version suit me fine...and I'm not sure I can bear to listen to that happy clappy overture and that really cheesy organ in the graveyard again...
I think it's dubbed especially for TV, and that it (at least so far) has not been released on CD or DVD.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure that's what happened. Shiki Theatre Company's YouTube channel had some ads on how this would be the first time that the singing as well as the spoken dialogue would be dubbed in Japanese. It's a bit strange to me that this is the first time it's been done, and that they didn't do a soundtrack or DVD release (yet, anyway). POTO is, after all, immensely popular in Japan. But then again, usually only movies considered to be for children (like Disney movies or the Harry Potter series) get dubbed... Back in the 50s and 60s, they did dubs of many Hollywood musicals (especially Sound of Music), but there's still never been a Japanese dub of Moulin Rouge or Chicago, as far as I'm aware. I'm a bit curious about how the spoken-lines-only dub of POTO worked, actually, because of all the sung lines from the stage show that were spoken in the movie -- were those dubbed, or not?

I do agree with you, though. Stage cast or not, they're made to imitate the English original, which by my standard is not good at all. Even wonderful Juan Carlos Barona and Julia Möller in the Spanish soundtrack sounds dull, just a pale shadow on how they were in the stage version. That said, I haven't heard the Japanese dub, so I might be positively surprised.... But something tells me I'll prefer the three Japanese cast albums I have.

True... My main reason for being so enthusiastic about this was that it would be the first time we'd get to hear Osamu Takai doing pretty much the whole show -- I'd heard clips of him from the official site (and other sources), but they haven't done a cast recording for him, and all the other recordings I'd heard of him were from 2005 or so.

And yeah, though the cast was made to fit the English version in some ways, in others I think they had a lot more freedom than the Spanish and other dubs -- for instance, when characters are singing while facing away from the camera (which happens more often than I previously realized), the Japanese singers tend to hold notes as long as they should be, rather than cutting off early because the original actors couldn't hold the notes. (As a side note, it's kind of nice to finally have a Japanese recording of PONR that takes it slow... My biggest gripe about the stage version in Japan is how they always rush through that scene.)

For those of you who are curious, I found a clip of the Japanese final lair scene on YouTube. Very good-quality upload, and yes, I can confirm that this is the actual dub (including the captions, which were there on the broadcast). Somebody else also uploaded clips of other scenes, but those were recorded with a camera in the living room, so you can see and hear everyone in the room and the sound from the TV is barely audible. Not really worth posting, IMO... but if anyone's really curious, I'll try.

operafantomet Tue Jan 18, 2011 9:13 pm

Apparently one or several of the movie costumes are to be on display in an exhibition called "Cut! Costume and the Cinema". January to April 2011, at the Boca Raton Museum of Art in Florida. More here:

http://www.bocamuseum.org/index.php?submenu=exib_upcoming&src=gendocs&ref=Upcoming%20Exhibitions&category=Exhibitions

http://www.renaissancefestival.com/forums/index.php?topic=14275.0

RoseOfTransylvania Thu Jan 27, 2011 11:02 pm

I really like this movie. It is gorgeous to look and hear, entertaining and even touching, despite miscast Butler.

Paula74 Tue Feb 08, 2011 11:04 pm

A couple of nights ago, I could sleep so I picked up the nearest book to read in bed and said book was Perry's The Complete Phantom of The Opera. I refer to it a lot, but it's been a while since I sat down and actually read it. And one bit stood out for me...

The Lloyd Webber Phantom in the cinema? He is reticent. "I am a theatrical animal," said Lloyd Webber in a recent interview with David Frost. But Lloyd Webber in a cinema with a fine director! It could just give us the definitive version of the Leroux legend.

It made for a real "what could have been" moment.

Scorp Sun Feb 13, 2011 6:43 pm

Paula74 wrote:
The Lloyd Webber Phantom in the cinema? He is reticent. "I am a theatrical animal," said Lloyd Webber in a recent interview with David Frost. But Lloyd Webber in a cinema with a fine director! It could just give us the definitive version of the Leroux legend.

It made for a real "what could have been" moment.

LOL I love that line because "a fine director" Mr Schumacher isn't; it makes me laugh (and cry inside at the same time).

Did you see how they've changed that quotation for the film companion? They simply change the latter part so it reads something like "I'm a theatrical animal...but now the film has been made and who knows? It could just give us the definitive version of the Leroux legend".

Um, I don't think it has done. Sorry, Andy.

RoseOfTransylvania Sun Feb 13, 2011 7:04 pm

A film with "smexy" Phantom cannot be definitive. I really like the movie, it´s magnificent visuls and music and drama, but definitive version? Good lord, no. And I´m sure he knows that now.

Scorp Mon Feb 14, 2011 8:55 am

Slightly O/T: Gerard Butler presented the award for Best Actress at the BAFTAs, which was broadcast on TV yesterday (the award incidentally went to Natalie Portman for her role in Black Swan). What on earth? He was clearly very, very drunk. And looked a mess IMHO. Grey hair already? I don't think he'd qualify in Joel's books as "young and sexy" any more.

ML6 Mon Feb 14, 2011 11:00 pm

Scorp wrote:Slightly O/T: Gerard Butler presented the award for Best Actress at the BAFTAs, which was broadcast on TV yesterday (the award incidentally went to Natalie Portman for her role in Black Swan). What on earth? He was clearly very, very drunk. And looked a mess IMHO. Grey hair already? I don't think he'd qualify in Joel's books as "young and sexy" any more.

Gerard Butler is almost always wasted. And he's really put on the poundage.

Amyable_Nature Thu Feb 24, 2011 10:34 pm

I couldn't resist:

The 2004 movie (ALW version) - Page 5 God

LadyCDaae Fri Feb 25, 2011 2:35 pm

I've probably said it before, but I'll say it again: I never found Butler particularly appealing, even in his "young and sexy" phase. He just never struck me as having that inner fire and charisma I look for in a leading man. Plus he never quite managed that...aristocratic air I think Erik should have. He didn't seem like the sort of guy to write opera--more like the guy who gets dragged to an opera on a date and spends the whole time struggling to stay awake so he can score with his girlfriend afterward.

~LCD

Alyssa Fri Feb 25, 2011 9:47 pm

LadyCDaae wrote:I've probably said it before, but I'll say it again: I never found Butler particularly appealing, even in his "young and sexy" phase. He just never struck me as having that inner fire and charisma I look for in a leading man. Plus he never quite managed that...aristocratic air I think Erik should have. He didn't seem like the sort of guy to write opera--more like the guy who gets dragged to an opera on a date and spends the whole time struggling to stay awake so he can score with his girlfriend afterward.

~LCD

Funny you mention that, because that seems to be the plot of all of his movies.

ML6 Sat Feb 26, 2011 1:00 am

There was one movie I liked Gerard in.

How to Train Your Dragon.

Because, for once, his voice fit the character:

The 2004 movie (ALW version) - Page 5 HowToTrainYourDragon-Stoick-GerardButler-560x420

The 2004 movie (ALW version) - Page 5 HowToTrainYourDragon-Stoick-GerardButler-560x420

RoseOfTransylvania Sat Feb 26, 2011 8:50 am

LadyCDaae wrote:I've probably said it before, but I'll say it again: I never found Butler particularly appealing, even in his "young and sexy" phase.
~LCD

Same with me. Actually, when I saw the film, I think he was pretty ugly. Embarassed

Then everybody yelled "He´s so sexy" or "He´s too sexy!" and I was "Ooops!" Shocked

Alyssa Mon Feb 28, 2011 4:09 pm

What does it say about Gerard Butler, when 7 years after people were declaring him "Sexy" or "un-sexy", that we are still discussing the same subject matter?

THE MORE YOU KNOW. CBS CARES

starryeyed Sat Mar 05, 2011 5:30 am

Scorp, I have just picked up on your comment and feel like a right plonk for raving about how I finally found Gerard Butler sexy after all these years now that he had grey hair. I quite like Matt Le Blanc too now he's gone grey... what is wrong with me?

I do agree though, he was completely and utterly trollied, though sometimes I think he comes across drunk a lot of the time anyway. Reminds me when I was little, on hogmany a well known news presenter (in Scotland) got more and more drunk as the programme went on and after a while it got quite embarassing when she began sitting on guests knees and the like...

Helen Sun Mar 06, 2011 12:36 am

starryeyed wrote:Reminds me when I was little, on hogmany a well known news presenter (in Scotland) got more and more drunk as the programme went on and after a while it got quite embarassing when she began sitting on guests knees and the like...

I think I remember that!

Scorp Tue Mar 15, 2011 1:50 pm

I fear for the taste of today's impressionable youth: http://twitter.com/nickjonas/status/47550433899708417

OH DEAR. Rolling Eyes

RoseOfTransylvania Tue Mar 15, 2011 6:30 pm

She didn´t say she liked torture porn or something. Music by Jonas Brothers sounds harmless - if bland - enough. And 2004 movie is flawed, but very good - and yes, this comes from Leroux purist. After all, it´s the MUSICAL which adds undesirable (for me) ideas of deformed-but-attractive Phantom, "acceptable target" Piangi etc.

Scorp Tue Mar 15, 2011 7:42 pm

RoseOfTransylvania wrote:She didn´t say she liked torture porn or something. Music by Jonas Brothers sounds harmless - if bland - enough. And 2004 movie is flawed, but very good - and yes, this comes from Leroux purist. After all, it´s the MUSICAL which adds undesirable (for me) ideas of deformed-but-attractive Phantom, "acceptable target" Piangi etc.

Eh? Who's "she"? The tweet was by Nick Jonas himself.

Never mind; my post wasn't meant to be taken too seriously or intended to be justified.

DISCLAIMER IN THE EVENT OF LURKER FANGIRLS WHO WOULD LIKE TO SEND ME HATE MAIL: Mr Butler and Miss Rossum are superb singers and actors and did justice to their roles in Joel Schumacher's beautiful adaptation of The Phantom of the Opera. They were perfectly cast and since Andrew Lloyd Webber himself said he couldn't see how the film could be any better, I cannot possibly dissent with this opinion (to do so would be sad, pathetic and mental). Mr Jonas similarly reinvented the role of Marius and did us all very proud at the 25th anniversary concert of Les Misérables and in the same role in the West End production.

RoseOfTransylvania Tue Mar 15, 2011 9:04 pm

My mistake!
BTW, I am hardly phangirl - I am grown-up woman who thinks Gerik is hot as Siberian winter. Still, I don´t think Gerik fan girls sighing over his "hotness" are so far away from Merik´s (Musical-Erik´s) fans who say that Leroux´s living corpse is "sensual" and should never be played by fat singer/actor. Wink

SenorSwanky Wed Mar 16, 2011 2:43 am

Scorp wrote:
RoseOfTransylvania wrote:She didn´t say she liked torture porn or something. Music by Jonas Brothers sounds harmless - if bland - enough. And 2004 movie is flawed, but very good - and yes, this comes from Leroux purist. After all, it´s the MUSICAL which adds undesirable (for me) ideas of deformed-but-attractive Phantom, "acceptable target" Piangi etc.

Eh? Who's "she"? The tweet was by Nick Jonas himself.

Never mind; my post wasn't meant to be taken too seriously or intended to be justified.

DISCLAIMER IN THE EVENT OF LURKER FANGIRLS WHO WOULD LIKE TO SEND ME HATE MAIL: Mr Butler and Miss Rossum are superb singers and actors and did justice to their roles in Joel Schumacher's beautiful adaptation of The Phantom of the Opera. They were perfectly cast and since Andrew Lloyd Webber himself said he couldn't see how the film could be any better, I cannot possibly dissent with this opinion (to do so would be sad, pathetic and mental). Mr Jonas similarly reinvented the role of Marius and did us all very proud at the 25th anniversary concert of Les Misérables and in the same role in the West End production.

Bravo. If this were on Facebook, it'd get a big "Like."

RoseOfTransylvania Wed Mar 16, 2011 9:04 am

Going back to film: I can´t, unfortunately, speak for Gerry´s and Emmy´s singing, because I have no musical training. Their singing carried gorgeous music to me perfectly, nothing more, nothing less. Ironically, while I´m sure he is much better singer than Butler, Michael Crawford´s voice has always been too high for me. Visuals were sumptuous - sets, costumes, photography, all those magnificent roses,! - and it was entertaining, even touching drama. Gerik - like Merik - is murderer, kidnapper, extortionist, vain and shallow. He is also abused, suffering and tragic. It was bad adaptation of Leroux, of course, making same mistakes than the musical and it´s fans - headdesk- and, at least superficially, enlargening them, a trend that grows and then pretty canon-rape LND goes to Hell in the handbasket.

LadyCDaae Wed Mar 16, 2011 1:46 pm

I think the movie for me represents a "tipping point" in that what it does might not seem too different from the stage version, but it's enough to be too much. MOTN and PONR have always been sensual numbers, but Prince's staging has elements of tension and restraint about it (appropriate as both participants are, in their different ways, sexually constrained individuals). Schumacher goes full bore with the thigh-groping and Dread Pirate Roberts dancers, and it makes a world of difference. And then too, there's the fact that when it comes to the Phantom's power and menace, Butler just...isn't very good at it. I've said before that one of the best things about Crawford's Phantom is how effortlessly authoritative his demeanor is. The minute you see him, you know that he has power, he's in control, and you defy him at your peril. Butler's not intimidating, nor frightening, nor compelling in that way, so he can't hold the show as well--and no version of PotO can get off the ground without a strong title character.

~LCD

RoseOfTransylvania Wed Mar 16, 2011 3:23 pm

Movie had more cleavages and tight corsets, but being asexual, I just tend to admire their beauty. I saw the stage version before the movie and I remember the clothes were gorgeous but different. Groping? I don´t remember was there any groping in stage, but when Gerik starts to warm up Chrissy, I always tend to admire Chrissy´s clothes, because camera takes close-up of them.
I haven´t seen Crawford except in YT. Was he more charismatic or intimidating than Gerry? Well, I can´t tell, but it´s me: my mental condition tends to blur humans as visually unattractive mass.

LadyCDaae Thu Mar 17, 2011 2:48 am

Well now, there's a question on which you'll get a different answer depending on who you ask, but for my money? Crawford had more innate sensuality and command in one gesture of his hand than Butler did in all his strutting about with his shirt front open. (Full disclosure: I never had the good fortune of seeing Crawford live either; my conclusions have been drawn from various video footage.) Butler (or perhaps Schumacher) was just trying too hard to make the character sexy. With Crawford, it was more a natural by-product of the way he played the character.

~LCD

RoseOfTransylvania Thu Mar 17, 2011 9:12 am

With my money? I have no favorite actor for Phantom. Unpopular answer, but true. I am big fan of Dracula as story, but I have no favorite actor in that part, either. So despite Gerry strutting his stuff with shirt open and in too tight pants (which I never noticed before someone pointed out) and the flaws which it shares with musical, I still like the movie very much .

Scorp Thu Jun 30, 2011 5:39 pm

Well I hate to resurrect any discussion about this piece of crap, but like a mad scientist I wanted to share my discovery as soon as possible. We knew already that that the 'Journey to the Cemetery' music was recycled from The Beautiful Game (and part of it in turn recycled for that ~~'Inside a Cardboard Box'~~ 'Beneath a Moonless Sky' soft-porn number in Love Never Dies, but I only just noticed that another part of this additional music, which can be heard more clearly when Patrick Wilson's Raoul falls into that trap thing after we are treated with a painful rendition of 'Down Once More', is directly lifted from 'The Nature of the Beast' from Whistle Down the Wind.

Seriously Andy, you don't make a hit by recycling your post-Sunset flops. Rolling Eyes

It seems that the only bit of music original to this film AT ALL is 'Learn to Be Lonely'.

phanphan4ever Fri Aug 19, 2011 4:53 pm

I LOVED the 2004 movie! I have never seen TPOTP on stage, but have watched clips of the songs from the 1986 play (I think that's when it was) and to me there is no comparison. The reason I love GB's voice so much better is because, in my mind, Raoul is supposed to have more of a smooth voice, more refined, because the character is more refined. The Phantom is rough around the edges, dangerous even, and GB's vocals portrayed that for me. I also like ER's voice so much better than Sarah Brightman's. For me personally, I thought GB and ER showed so much more emotion than in the play clips I have watched (and I've watched many of them). Maybe seeing it live would make a difference for me, but I don't think so. This 2004 movie is the one I fell in love with, and in my mind, there will never be another Phantom besides Gerard Butler or Christine besides ER.

Madame Giry Fri Aug 19, 2011 10:27 pm

Phanphan4ever, welcome to the Deserted Phans forum.

While you are entitled to your opinion and preference regarding the 2004 film, I would like to take gentle exception to your characterization of the Phantom. The Phantom, while dangerous and even homicidal, has always been described as a gentleman; an elegant, if somewhat macabre figure, possessed of an extraordinarily perfect and flawless operatic male voice. (See: the original Phantom of the Opera novel by Gaston Leroux, the several translations of which are discussed elsewhere in this forum.) I think you will find that many of us here believe that despite Gerard Butler's best efforts, his (digitally-enhanced) singing was nowhere near the sound and style of voice that is required for the role. The same goes for ER singer; her likewise enhanced vocals lack the operatic strength and quality to be believable as a brilliant opera singer.

This isn't to say that every Phantom and Christine that has ever appeared on stage in the musical is superior to Gerard Butler or ER. You will find that even for fans of the show opinions regarding which actors are 'the best' will be all over the map (and even the 'best' have their off nights). Seeing a live performance won't guarantee that you'll have the experience you want; but I can tell you that personally for me there is nothing that can eclipse the magic of seeing a good live performance of the show.

Regards,
~Madame~

PS - If by chance you are a troll just here to stir up some mischief, please, go away.

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