Re: Love Never Dies - all views allowed

SenorSwanky Mon Mar 08, 2010 6:12 am

operafantomet wrote:Hitler rants about the Phantom sequel. I actually laughed out loud!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jxxx4JLTxyA

Could've been comedy gold, but I've seen much funnier things done with that Hitler meme. Too much text to read in the subtitles, as well.

SenorSwanky Mon Mar 08, 2010 6:19 am

LoveShouldDie wrote:https://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=347893076949

In response to THE TIMES' article concerning the overwhelmingly negative fan response to LOVE NEVER DIES, Andrew Lloyd Webber's unnecessary, ill-conceived and ludicrous sequel to THE PHANTOM OF THE OPERA (5 March 2010, 'No Love Lost for Lloyd Webber Sequel', page 9), Lloyd Webber's PR team at the Really Useful Group have spoken to THE TIMES' Arts Correspondent Ben Hoyle in the 6 March 2010 edition of THE TIMES.

...

Read the source article in question at http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/tol/arts_and_entertainment/stage/article7052118.ece

Bravissimo!

SenorSwanky Mon Mar 08, 2010 6:22 am

justin-from-barbados wrote:wow, very gerry butler looking

That pic of him in the fluffy white shirt and ball-strangling tight black pants made me gag.

and that bar scene i almost mistook it for Sunset Blvd's pool scene

Yeah, I thought the same thing. Millson looks exactly like Joe Gillis.

SenorSwanky Mon Mar 08, 2010 6:27 am

LadyCDaae wrote:
operafantomet wrote:
LadyCDaae wrote:The more I look at those photos, the more they look like a mid-range regional version of Y/K to me. :geek:

~LCD
Don't insult the Y/K version like that!

Point taken; I've seen some pretty good things done with that one on limited budgets....what's a better analogy for "mediocre production values, including a mask that was bought from the costume shop down the road because they didn't have the time or money to tailor one to the actor's face"?

~LCD

I actually think the mask fits Ramin's face like a glove, but that's part of the problem. It's flat and shapeless (and that nose is just ridiculously huge). The mask designs used originally in London and the US, and the ones used in Toronto, among other productions, both fit the actor's face and had beautifully sculpted forms that were both elegant and eerie/threatening, depending on the lighting and angle and the actor's corresponding facial expressions.

SenorSwanky Mon Mar 08, 2010 6:33 am

LadyCDaae wrote:You know the funny thing about the Internet? It works both ways. How many of us have watched a movie, or gotten into a TV show or music group, or bought a cast recording because the online community was saying "this is really good!" How many producers have generated interest in their product with clever web-based campaigning? If there's bad word of mouth about your show, you can't blame the Internet just because it's getting out faster than it used to.

~LCD

Exactly. The Internet is unforgiving, and it can be full of unaccountable lies, but it can also be brutally honest. The critics aren't to blame for a show failing; if it's bad, it shouldn't succeed.

operafantomet Mon Mar 08, 2010 6:40 am

SenorSwanky wrote:
LadyCDaae wrote:You know the funny thing about the Internet? It works both ways. How many of us have watched a movie, or gotten into a TV show or music group, or bought a cast recording because the online community was saying "this is really good!" How many producers have generated interest in their product with clever web-based campaigning? If there's bad word of mouth about your show, you can't blame the Internet just because it's getting out faster than it used to.

~LCD
Exactly. The Internet is unforgiving, and it can be full of unaccountable lies, but it can also be brutally honest. The critics aren't to blame for a show failing; if it's bad, it shouldn't succeed.

But I have a sneaking suspicion ALW will blame the lack of tremendous success of this show on the "evil phans on the internet". I don't think he will for a second question the actual quality of the product.

operafantomet Mon Mar 08, 2010 6:43 am

SenorSwanky wrote:
operafantomet wrote:Hitler rants about the Phantom sequel. I actually laughed out loud!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jxxx4JLTxyA
Could've been comedy gold, but I've seen much funnier things done with that Hitler meme. Too much text to read in the subtitles, as well.

Actually, that's what I loved about it. It was so absurd to see that he spoke two or three words, while the text just went on and on... I also loved the fact that he pointed to Berlin on the map, while he mentioned lots of other cities. I guess I just enjoyed the silliness. Surprised

SenorSwanky Mon Mar 08, 2010 7:07 am

operafantomet wrote:
SenorSwanky wrote:
operafantomet wrote:Hitler rants about the Phantom sequel. I actually laughed out loud!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jxxx4JLTxyA
Could've been comedy gold, but I've seen much funnier things done with that Hitler meme. Too much text to read in the subtitles, as well.
Actually, that's what I loved about it. It was so absurd to see that he spoke two or three words, while the text just went on and on... I also loved the fact that he pointed to Berlin on the map, while he mentioned lots of other cities. I guess I just enjoyed the silliness.

Yeah, that's usually part of what's funny about these spoofs, but maybe I've just seen too many of them linked on Facebook, and it's gotten old for me.

But I have a sneaking suspicion ALW will blame the lack of tremendous success of this show on the "evil phans on the internet". I don't think he will for a second question the actual quality of the product.

Of course that's what he'll do. But would he be wise to? We phans (Sidebar: why do I feel more corny than ever using the "ph" word? Is ALW trying to make it a dirty label like the GOP has long ago made "liberal" and "socialist" in the US?) are largely responsible for the success of the original (though certainly huge segments of the regular theatergoing public have seen it one or two times and bought the OLC), so if ALW had created something that respected and enhanced the original, we would be far more likely to have jumped onboard the sequel and made it a similar success. The idea of a sequel itself is not necessarily offensive. A continuation of the story, following the psychological impact on the characters, could possibly be done well. But the plot they chose to go with is absolutely ridiculous and does trash the characters as they are created in the original and does cheapen the emotional impact of that show's plot, particularly its beautiful yet tragic ending (and it IS an ending, and one that makes sense, ALW). Hell, Raoul could even conceivably turn into an alcoholic; these things do happen, to quote Andre. But the lynchpin of the whole thing, beside the idiocy of all these characters ending up at Coney Island like it's a sitcom reunion special, is that the Phantom continues to stalk Christine and has had a child with her. That is what is offensive, what has us all legitimately up in arms.

Scorp Mon Mar 08, 2010 8:12 am

Phantomlove wrote:Scorp: I think you hit the nail right again. I didn't know ALW frequently writes for The Daily Telegraph, but it makes a bit of sense if he does and one of his pals wrote this up. The whole thing left a bit of a bad taste in my mouth actually, not just the part about me. There were also all these ironic generalisations about weeping "phans" swarming Haymarket in costume and writing everything with a ph instead of f. And nothing was substantiated really. There weren't any sources in the article as far as I can remember, just a whole load of speculation. The reporter takes speculation and presents it as facts without telling us where he got his information. That isn't cool really. For example, he talks about psychological studies that have been made on Phantom fans. Who made them? At what university? Is there a paper written somewhere so we can read it for ourselves? I read that article as a way of trying to ridicule Phantom fans really. The part about the American business man is also strange. The reporter puts together two different things, that the man is such a big fan that he buys every seat at the Majestic for a charity event and that he two years later dies of a heart attack. He seems to want us to believe that the man died of a heart attack because he was a crazy Phantom fan, but where is the logic in that?

Just sent off a very quick letter to the editor pretty much saying the same thing. No guarantee it'll get published in the letters section next week, but worth a try? Here's the email address I used: stletters@telegraph.co.uk. The website says: "Please include name, address, and work and home telephone numbers."

LadyCDaae Mon Mar 08, 2010 2:25 pm

operafantomet wrote:
SenorSwanky wrote:
LadyCDaae wrote:You know the funny thing about the Internet? It works both ways. How many of us have watched a movie, or gotten into a TV show or music group, or bought a cast recording because the online community was saying "this is really good!" How many producers have generated interest in their product with clever web-based campaigning? If there's bad word of mouth about your show, you can't blame the Internet just because it's getting out faster than it used to.

~LCD
Exactly. The Internet is unforgiving, and it can be full of unaccountable lies, but it can also be brutally honest. The critics aren't to blame for a show failing; if it's bad, it shouldn't succeed.

But I have a sneaking suspicion ALW will blame the lack of tremendous success of this show on the "evil phans on the internet". I don't think he will for a second question the actual quality of the product.

Well, he has to blame someone--I mean, you don't expect him to take responsibility for this train wreck, do you?

~LCD

InkedAlchemist Mon Mar 08, 2010 5:33 pm

Well... I say we all ask dear Lord Andy all the important questions.

http://connecttheworld.blogs.cnn.com/2010/03/08/tuesdays-connector-andrew-lloyd-webber/

Christine's Shadow Mon Mar 08, 2010 9:24 pm

operafantomet wrote:Hitler rants about the Phantom sequel. I actually laughed out loud!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jxxx4JLTxyA

not from this clip but...

"NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN!!" *ahem* and now back to your scheduled LND discussion.

IamErik771 Tue Mar 09, 2010 4:49 am

operafantomet wrote:Hitler rants about the Phantom sequel. I actually laughed out loud!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jxxx4JLTxyA

I loved this, even though sometimes the captions went by too quickly to read.

Although... if Hitler hates it, does that mean the rest of us are supposed to like it? *shudders*

Madame Giry Tue Mar 09, 2010 5:44 pm

Opening Day LND article roundup:

http://www.broadwayworld.com/article/Photo_Flash_LOVE_NEVER_DIES_OPENS_TONIGHT_20100309

After much hype and controversy, LOVE NEVER DIES opens tonight, 9 March, in London at the Adelphi Theatre. Previews began on 22 February and stars Sierra Boggess and Ramin Karimloo with direction by Jack O'Brien. The show will subsequently open in New York on November 11, 2010 and then in Australia in 2011. The word in London is that the premiere will deliver the splashiest opening night party in West End history, with the party venue being turned into Coney Island.

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/entertainment/theatre-arts/lsquoopening-in-love-never-dies-tonight-will-be-a-moment-irsquoll-never-forgetrsquo-14712235.html (Interview with the actress who plays Fleck)

“Opening in Love Never Dies is something I will never forget. Along with making the final 12 for I’d Do Anything, this is one of my top achievements,” says Niamh.

“The fact that I get to originate a role in Andrew’s most recent creation is a major thing in my life. Since I was a child I’ve loved musical theatre, so this is a dream come true. I keep having to pinch myself.”

http://artsbeat.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/03/09/down-once-more-to-the-dungeon-the-phantom-prepares-for-his-return/

“Remember,” warns the title character of a long-running Broadway musical, “there are worse things than a shattered chandelier.”

So take pity on the poor Phantom of the Opera, whose stomach right now must be as twisted as that aforementioned candelabrum and whose nerves must be as wrecked as his abhorrent face.

http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/Showbiz-News/Love-Never-Dies-Phantom-Of-The-Opera-Sequel-By-Andrew-Lloyd-Webber-Slated-By-Online-Critics/Article/201003215569699?lpos=Showbiz_News_Third_Home_Page_Article_Teaser_Region__7&lid=ARTICLE_15569699_Love_Never_Dies%2C_Phantom_Of_The_Opera_Sequel_By_Andrew_Lloyd_Webber_Slated_By_Online_Critics

Attacks on his Phantom sequel, Love Never Dies, have been cropping up on the web since previews began on February 22.

The online critics savaged everything from the performances to the set and ticket prices.

http://edition.cnn.com/2010/SHOWBIZ/03/09/lloyd.webber.love.musical/

"I don't think that if you go to it you will say 'oh gosh I need to see the old one.' I think it stands completely alone as a musical."

"What I think is that 'Love Never Dies' is a completely standalone musical that just happens to have the same four characters as the 'Phantom.'

"I don't think we can ever better the old 'Phantom' in its own way," Lloyd Webber told CNN's Becky Anderson.

MG in: Well, at least I can agree with that last statement.

Cheers, everyone. Razz

~Madame~

**MasqPhan** Tue Mar 09, 2010 6:22 pm

Interesting bunch of articles from Madame Giry.

Here's another we were discussing that was from National Public Radio.
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=124466410

ALW quote:
"I think 'Till I Hear You Sing' is probably as strong a song as I've ever done," he says. "And I think it's a stronger song than 'The Music of the Night.' I actually think that the score, overall, goes a lot further than the original Phantom."

Jack O'Brien quotes:
"I realized that we probably would never get, critically, a fair evaluation, because how can we? So what you're thinking about is being consistent, being honest, honest to the characters, honest to Andrew Lloyd Webber and his music. In other words, you don't think about the rest of it. You just don't."

and on the Coney Island setting...
""It was Sodom by the Sea, and it was permissive and it was fast bucks and it was a fertile ground for criminality," he says. "It was all of the best and worst early nascent hot stuff in America, rolled up in one area. What a great playground for the Phantom to come to!"

There are additional audio parts available in addition to the written article.

LadyCDaae Tue Mar 09, 2010 6:24 pm

What I think is that 'Love Never Dies' is a completely standalone musical that just happens to have the same four characters as the 'Phantom.'

*raises hand* Um, Lord Lloyd-Webber, sir, I count five characters transferred from the original (at least in name, the characters themselves seem to have been left behind somewhere). Who are you leaving out? (Probably Raoul, poor boy REALLY needs more love these days.)

~LCD

Mandrake Tue Mar 09, 2010 8:17 pm

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/willgompertz/2010/03/are_you_sitting_comfortably_if.html
Unhappy about comfort and preview-pricing at the Adelphi.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00r4pd8
Mark Lawson's review of LND tomorrow (Wed) at 1915 UK time (BBC radio programmes can be heard abroad, click on the Listen Live link)

I suppose we'll start to get "real" reviews from tomorrow? Should be interesting...

Paula74 Tue Mar 09, 2010 11:22 pm

So Gerard Butler attended the London premiere.

I can just hear the reaction...

ZOMG GERRY WAS AT THE PREMIERE? THIS MEANS HE'S GOING TO BE IN THE MOVIE!!!!!!!! NO ONE ELSE CAN EVER PLAY ERIK!!!!!

Sorry...I just couldn't resist. Twisted Evil

Anyhow...from the first reviews...

"Love Never Dies, Andrew Lloyd Webber’s sequel to Phantom Of The Opera, is as slow to motor as a lawnmower at spring’s first cut."

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-1256707/Love-Never-Dies-world-premiere-New-Andrew-Lloyd-Webber-musical-debuts.html#ixzz0hj0balX7

ETA...from the NY Times

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/10/theater/10love.html

Cape Twirl of Doom Wed Mar 10, 2010 12:46 am

Reviews are starting to come in from various UK papers. They're all over the place, from 2 to 5 stars. They all pretty much say the score is good but the book lacks tension and the ending is bad.

starryeyed Wed Mar 10, 2010 12:46 am

The Times rates Love Never Dies 2 out of 5 stars - ouch!

http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/tol/arts_and_entertainment/stage/article7055616.ece

phantomphan1992 Wed Mar 10, 2010 1:17 am

Wow. Two whole stars, huh? That seems awfully generous.

starryeyed Wed Mar 10, 2010 2:07 am

I have seen a review that actually gave it four stars but have forgotten the link now because my internet crashed just as I was about to post it. Technology these days! I don't know, it seems such a mixed batch of reviews it is almost as if everyone is watching different shows, but I think it illustrates different people like different things.

I am still unsure how this is actually going to pan out, but for what it is worth I think Andrew Lloyd Webber's constant contradictary statements aren't going to do it any good. I think this coupled with the wide spectrum of verdicts on the show really shows what a mess that actually may be. I've just realised I go to see Love Never Dies (I nearly typed Love Should Die) in 9 days, and as each day goes by I become less and less interested in it... but I am most definitely going to try and go with an open mind. I've not been the biggest supporter but have not been the biggest critic of it either, I want to hopefully give a fair opinion on the show.

phantomphan1992 Wed Mar 10, 2010 2:30 am

Good for you. I'm very interested to hear your perspective on it, since you are, like you said, neither completely for nor against it.

PhantomofPhoenix Wed Mar 10, 2010 2:52 am

Hi! Im new here, but I have been checking it the board for a while now.

I'm just wondering if anyone has listen to the soundtrack all the way through yet, since it has offically been released, whd what are your thoughts about it?

I actually just bought and about mid way through it, and so far I'm conflicted weather or not I like it, I'm trying really hard to like it, but it's not working.

SenorSwanky Wed Mar 10, 2010 6:37 am

PhantomofPhoenix wrote:Hi! Im new here, but I have been checking it the board for a while now.

I'm just wondering if anyone has listen to the soundtrack all the way through yet, since it has offically been released, whd what are your thoughts about it?

I actually just bought and about mid way through it, and so far I'm conflicted weather or not I like it, I'm trying really hard to like it, but it's not working.

I think a few people have listened to the whole thing, and if you feel like wading through the last 20 or so pages of this thread, you'll get pretty detailed views on the cast recording.

starryeyed Wed Mar 10, 2010 9:30 am

My thoughts in a few lines on the full cast recording is that it has its beautiful (urgh beautiful, please go away) moments, it really does but it also has its really clunky moments. Also the overuse of the word beautiful IS annoying I don't care what anyone says. However, I've heard that there are bits on the recording not on the show, some of the lines are different and more is explained in the show (obviously) so it doesn't go into as much detail as the actual show would.

Aled_Boyo Wed Mar 10, 2010 11:02 am

I saw the coverage on ITV's news at 10, last night. They showed a few clips from the show, mainly Ramin in the Seinfeld shirt singing TIHYS. Contrary to the pictures we saw last week, the costumes and make-up looked miles better, it has to be said. I guess they were rehearsal shots after all.

Back on the fence I go... Embarassed

starryeyed Wed Mar 10, 2010 11:24 am

I am stuck on the fence with you Aled_Boyo. Really worried I'll not be swayed either way when I do see it and I'll still have no actual opinion on the whole thing!

justin-from-barbados Wed Mar 10, 2010 12:48 pm

http://www.guardian.co.uk/stage/2010/mar/10/love-never-dies-review

there is a vid in here, cant believe that is the Christine robot? would never guess that isn't a real person.

edit, nevermind, it's obviously Sierra and this would be the press-reel

starryeyed Wed Mar 10, 2010 1:03 pm

Did they actually stick with the robot idea? One of my friends is convinced it is in fact Sierra the whole way through as "it" blinks and breathes... if it is in fact the robot then I am very impressed.

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