Is Erik Real?

removed from forum by deathshead.

I am Trying to find a camera so i can take a picture and upload it, but heres what it reads,

Chere Mr. manager.Merci. Bravissima. (Text missing) Nilsson Exqiuse.( Half of the page is missing, someone tried to burn it it seems.)Ecriere Biente Pour
236.445 Francs 30 c ( Burned half.)
MM. Debornardo et
6.75 francs 32c
premiere jours de
pour lanne en
fini de soir de inst'

Cordialement
G.O.

this letter was proven by many members and deathshead1 to be a fake, thank you for your help, jaques francois has quit his account.

Fake

In a word, no.

This isn't even a subject open for debate. Erik, as he is incarnated in Leroux's original, is a fictional creation. Yes, a lot of the story was inspired by real events, but these were subsequently fictionalised. End of story.

That thread at poto.com is ridiculous. Many, many pages later and you still get deluded teenage fans from Middle America who don't understand the difference between a historical thesis and a fictional novel and don't realise that the words 'The Phantom of the Opera really existed' are the words of a narrator, not Gaston Leroux.

I've done years of research into this, and yes, a surprising amount corresponds to real life events. That's Leroux's style.

But neither Erik nor 'Eric' (as per Renata de Waele) ever existed. Sorry.

*

Please don't be offended, I just meant that Erik as described in Leroux did not exist word for word as the story is written. Otherwise you wouldn't buy the novel in the fiction section of a bookshop. The French word for Ghost is not 'Ghost', it's 'fantôme', so I don't understand how you can construe 'G.O.' as being French for Opera Ghost. Erik signed his letters F. de L'O. in the novel.

EDIT: Wait, I just saw the bit about Nilsson, which I must have missed. Now that does intrigue me. A photo of this note would be appreciated. Where did you get it from?

This said, of course, the note does nothing to prove Erik's existence. It simply may be evidence of Leroux (again) morphing fact into fiction. Which is much more fascinating than had the entire thing been literally real, 100% through and through.

Thank you scorp, i just thought of the same thing, i must have been typing too fast, Kristina nilsson? I Cant find a camer, but i will send it as soon as i can. K?

Deathshead1 wrote:Thank you scorp, i just thought of the same thing, i must have been typing too fast, Kristina nilsson? I Cant find a camer, but i will send it as soon as i can. K?

That'd be great, thanks.

what is your email? i have a black and white pic, sorry, you cant read anything, as soon as i get a good digi- camera ill send u a good one

Or can you borrow the use of a scanner, Deathshead1? If you scan the letter, put it up on Photobucket and link to it, that would probably give better quality.

And yes, I agree with Scorp that the story of the Phantom of the Opera is a STORY, a fictional tale. But it's a wonderful story that has touched the hearts of so many people. It's magical.

U mean a copy machine? how do you hook that up to the computer?

Deathshead1 wrote:what is your email? i have a black and white pic, sorry, you cant read anything, as soon as i get a good digi- camera ill send u a good one

I'm not a mod or admin on this site, but I just want to warn people against giving out personal details and even email adresses to people they don't know....

Deathshead1, could you put up the picture on for example photobucket and link to it instead? That way lots of people can see it, and you don't need to ask for anyone's email adress, nor do you need to reveal your own...

You asked what a scanner is, check this explanation on wikipedia. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image_scanner

If you don't have access to one at home, perhaps one of your friends has one, or perhaps you could use one at school?

OK, Oh, how do you post pictures on this site, can you?

Could i fax it to you?I dont think this is personal, If so What is your fax#?

I don't have a fax. Am not sure how to post a picture on this site, but if you upload a scanned image to photobucket, you can post a link to the photobucket image. It's hard to explain all the details here, I suggest you find someone to help you. Good luck!

thanks, like my new avatar, thats me, i know, im a kid, im only 14.

this is about POTO, and i believe good luck in theatre is " Break a Leg."

(-9

Alright, you can see a photo on my website www.wix.com/deathsheaderik1/deathsheadcom

Scorp wrote:Please don't be offended, I just meant that Erik as described in Leroux did not exist word for word as the story is written. Otherwise you wouldn't buy the novel in the fiction section of a bookshop. The French word for Ghost is not 'Ghost', it's 'fantôme', so I don't understand how you can construe 'G.O.' as being French for Opera Ghost. Erik signed his letters F. de L'O. in the novel.

Dan Brown made the same mistake in "The da Vinci code"... Through anagrams and whatnot he adds a new meaning to a portrait by its English title (Mona Lisa). However, he is writing for an American audience, as the portrait has been known as "La Gioconda", "La Joconde" and occationally "Monna Lisa" in Italy and France.

I know its a bit early to form an opinion on this Leroux-Phantom letter, but it appears to have been made by someone speaking English and not French...

As for personal info (email address etc), PMs is a good idea. The PM function can be found in the menu under the Deserted Phans banner.

You know what, youre absolutely right. althought, jaques did say he filled in some of the faded letters. Bink! He sent me An Email! I'll ask him about the G. O. thing. Bing! Got it
jaques Francois (*email removed*)
Sent: Tue 5/25/10 5:47 PM
To: *email removed*

Jessica Filled in the o.g., After we bought the letter, she wanted to take it back home to america, and it did actually say f De'l opera. I showed it to the paris opera manager, and he tossed it into the fire place, and walked out, saying " You had no right To Buy that!" I salvaged It, and faxed it to you 10 years later. can i join Deserted phans?

he says he doesent mind you emailing him as long as you dont spam him.

Deathshead1 wrote:Jessica Filled in the o.g., After we bought the letter, she wanted to take it back home to america, and it did actually say f De'l opera. I showed it to the paris opera manager, and he tossed it into the fire place, and walked out, saying " You had no right To Buy that!" I salvaged It, and faxed it to you 10 years later. can i join Deserted phans?

I don't mean to be a party pooper, but that sounds phony... Where was this letter showed to the manager of Palais Garnier (or was it Opera Bastille?)? And why would he burn it?

I removed the email addresses above. PMs is a better option for sharing info like email addresses, or for having/sharing private conversations.

operafantomet wrote:

Deathshead1 wrote:Jessica Filled in the o.g., After we bought the letter, she wanted to take it back home to america, and it did actually say f De'l opera. I showed it to the paris opera manager, and he tossed it into the fire place, and walked out, saying " You had no right To Buy that!" I salvaged It, and faxed it to you 10 years later. can i join Deserted phans?

I don't mean to be a party pooper, but that sounds phony... Where was this letter showed to the manager of Palais Garnier (or was it Opera Bastille?)? And why would he burn it?

I removed the email addresses above. PMs is a better option for sharing info like email addresses, or for having/sharing private conversations.

I'm afraid I have to agree... Perhaps the original poster would be better off delighting those who buy that thread on poto.com with this story.

Fake

Hello Monsiuers, I am the much talked about Jaques Francois. Now, the manager of the palias galanier who threw my note into the fire, frowned apon the subject Of the Fantome De'lopera very much, he felt that it caused unwanted publicity, and brought over too many annoying tourists who didnt care at all about opera, just Erik. Every time someone Would try to buy bow five, if he let them have it at all, he would have them accompanied by gaurds, so they didn't snoop around. He Was not the one who sold me the letter, it was the man in charge of documents, Pierre, who was a good friend of mine untill he passed away. When i confronted the manager with a question about this letter, he snatched it out of my hand and threw it into the fire. " you Shouldn't have bought that fake piece of Filth!" he said, my wife and i were going to sell it to the smithsonian, but they never got to us, that is why my english speaking wife whote " G.O." on the bottom right hand corner, i no longer have the letter, but i have copies of it.

thank you for joining jaques! Although i am starting to believe that your letter is a fake, the deserted phan guys have some pretty good proof that you are making the whole thing up. Explain the G.O. For real, no more junk about your wife, she knew plenty of french.

jaquesfrancois1 wrote:Hello Monsiuers, I am the much talked about Jaques Francois. Now, the manager of the palias galanier who threw my note into the fire, frowned apon the subject Of the Fantome De'lopera very much, he felt that it caused unwanted publicity, and brought over too many annoying tourists who didnt care at all about opera, just Erik. Every time someone Would try to buy bow five, if he let them have it at all, he would have them accompanied by gaurds, so they didn't snoop around. He Was not the one who sold me the letter, it was the man in charge of documents, Pierre, who was a good friend of mine untill he passed away. When i confronted the manager with a question about this letter, he snatched it out of my hand and threw it into the fire. " you Shouldn't have bought that fake piece of Filth!" he said, my wife and i were going to sell it to the smithsonian, but they never got to us, that is why my english speaking wife whote " G.O." on the bottom right hand corner, i no longer have the letter, but i have copies of it.

Eeeeh, whatever the case, be aware that IP addresses are tracked in this forum, and that the forum shows when people is online and offline... Just sayin'.

whats an ip address? jaques francois is actually visiting wichita falls this week, he created an acciunt on my computer, according to him, his french laptop dosent have the specific website. so he is chatting on my computer, if thats what you mean.
I found something that may help or hurt your story jaques, ( I am narrating our conversation online.)although renetta de waelle is said to be a sham.

"Writing in red: At the time, writing in red was extremely impolite. It meant that one was making fun of the person to whom he was writing. It was for this reason that Erik wrote in red.

Dahe... changed to Daae. Was she Nilsson? No. She was Dahe. But it's true that Gaston Leroux used Nilsson as the model [for Christine in his book]. The talent of one chorus girl would not have impassioned the public! People always admire those they can never be: an unparalleled singer, a magnificent and magical Phantom... something along the lines of hero worship. Consequently the solid gold ring [found on the skeleton] really did have C.D. on it in large, unmistakable letters... only it was lost in [one of the subsequent] wars.
There it is. Perhaps you might feel a little disappointed by that simple truth... There is no hard evidence, no list or other appearance of the names of the workers, no letters signed F. de l'O and no palace on the lake. This history was transmitted by word of mouth, like a legend... And there is no proof. Or, there is no proof anymore. As a researcher I still have my doubts. I told Renata that there must be some written document but she assured me that if such a document had ever existed, the Opera would probably have destroyed it.
[I have found] nothing dating from 1879 that recalls any incidents involving a phantom. I've found nothing but the most meager allusions in the Opera library: "

from all things phantom.com

should i close this thread? i dont really see a point, even jaques is saying there is no real evidence to back it up.

thank you for proving to me that what i owned was a fake, jaques has apologised and claims he did not make it, but admits it has to be fake, he is quitting deserted phans, so his shame wont show.

That thread at poto.com is ridiculous. Many, many pages later and you still get deluded teenage fans from Middle America who don't understand the difference between a historical thesis and a fictional novel and don't realise that the words 'The Phantom of the Opera really existed' are the words of a narrator, not Gaston Leroux.

I'd love to lock it, Scorp, but then I'd catch hell from all the "but Erik had to be real" folks. Sometimes, being a mod "over there" is not fun.

Speaking of which, can we please lock this headache before it attracts more bored 14 year olds who are neglecting their homework? Or even better, delete it.

LOL @ "Jacques François" though...my name's Bob Smith.

Its the last week of school, and if you read some of the stuff i edited yesterday, i myself have requested it to be deleted, the letter is obviosly a fake. I was to infatuated with the possibility of an erik to notice the details, it is written in sharpie.

Scorp wrote:Speaking of which, can we please lock this headache before it attracts more bored 14 year olds who are neglecting their homework? Or even better, delete it.

LOL @ "Jacques François" though...my name's Bob Smith.

Lock it, agreed... but keep it around for good comic relief...