Love Never Dies - all views allowed

SenorSwanky wrote:
Re: ALW's diva-like hissyfits and micromanaging during rehearsals and previews:

On "Love Never Dies," he reportedly became so frustrated, he muttered, "I'm just going to write a check for 10 million pounds and close the show."

Please do.

What was it Erik said to Garnier in Kay? "I wouldn't advise a man to go against his instincts," or something like that....

~LCD

That New York Post article is the best piece I've read yet about Love Never Dies. Very interesting that all the negative hype may have forced ALW's hand in opening the show sooner than the other members of the creative team might have wished. I actually like seeing that O'Brien and ALW disagreed about the direction of the show; hopefully when they make changes they'll reconsider some of O'Brien's previously rejected ideas - that is, if he stays on the project. I agree with others here though that there's no chance of Hal Prince moving in on this. He's made it clear in the past that he thinks the original show works the way it ends and that a sequel would not be believable.

I also want to thank Michael so much for pointing out how defanged and emo the Phantom is in LND. The essence of the character really has been lost (to say nothing of all the things that make the other characters recognizable). He definitely needs a more dramatic entrance. And hey, can we change the whole 'Mr. Y' thing? So silly.

It'll be very interesting to see who stays, who leaves, who gets fired and who gets hired as things go along...

~Madame~

New review from The Guardian,

The sequel to The Phantom of the Opera is the ghost of a show. You may go braced for blaring, and for schmaltz. You may be prepared for the potential bathos of a sung-through musical, where no one can say hello without the help of a string section. What's totally unexpected about Andrew Lloyd Webber's Love Never Dies is that it's drab.

More here: http://www.guardian.co.uk/stage/2010/mar/14/love-never-dies-london-assurance-review

~Madame~

Madame Giry wrote:
It'll be very interesting to see who stays, who leaves, who gets fired and who gets hired as things go along...

~Madame~

Parts of the problem (ha-ha) with this musical, is that it's so dependent on its cast, especially Karimloo and Boggess in the leads. I wonder what they'll do when they (allegedly) leave for Broadway.

Of course, people probably thought the same with original POTO (especially Crawford), and it turned out just fine. But I think the LND characters appears shallower, with the beauty of the leads being emphasized almost more than their personality. Especially the Christine role shows little development, only thing saving it being Boggess' bell voice and beauty, but the Phantom also seems too dependent on Karimloo's handsomeness and rocky edge. I fear their replacements will have little to work with acting wise, but still have large shoes to fill.

I watched Loose Women today and the interview was so boring, it was more of a "Ramin Karimloo" interview to be honest and barely mentioned the show, actually so much so one of the hosts finished by going to say "Aspects of Love is at the Adelphi Theatre."

Speaking of replacements, who do you think will replace Boggess and Karimloo once they head for Broadway? On the basis of what ALW's said in interviews, it's obvious he cast Ramin at least partially because of the youth and hunkiness and rockiness...but who else has that? Maybe they'll just take ex-cast members of We Will Rock You. Or to boost sales he'll do star casting and put Rhydian wotshisface in it or some other reality TV person after all those rumours.

I was unsuccessful in trying to persuade a friend of mine not to see the show and he went tonight. I just got this text from him that he sent during the interval: "This is really quite, quite bad."

dolly-ry wrote:I watched Loose Women today and the interview was so boring, it was more of a "Ramin Karimloo" interview to be honest and barely mentioned the show, actually so much so one of the hosts finished by going to say "Aspects of Love is at the Adelphi Theatre."

ASPECTS of Love? OMG. Delibrate or a true f-up?

Scorp wrote:I was unsuccessful in trying to persuade a friend of mine not to see the show and he went tonight. I just got this text from him that he sent during the interval: "This is really quite, quite bad."

I think he deserved it. Shame on him.

ML6 wrote:

dolly-ry wrote:I watched Loose Women today and the interview was so boring, it was more of a "Ramin Karimloo" interview to be honest and barely mentioned the show, actually so much so one of the hosts finished by going to say "Aspects of Love is at the Adelphi Theatre."

ASPECTS of Love? OMG. Delibrate or a true f-up?

Can't blame the host, after all doesn't the title song have a lyric about love bringing pleasure and pain? AKA a blatant steal from 'Love Changes Everything'?

ML6 wrote:

Scorp wrote:I was unsuccessful in trying to persuade a friend of mine not to see the show and he went tonight. I just got this text from him that he sent during the interval: "This is really quite, quite bad."

I think he deserved it. Shame on him.

Yes, I do too. I think I'll lock him out tonight so he can wander the streets and think about what he's done.

Scorp wrote:

ML6 wrote:

Scorp wrote:I was unsuccessful in trying to persuade a friend of mine not to see the show and he went tonight. I just got this text from him that he sent during the interval: "This is really quite, quite bad."

I think he deserved it. Shame on him.

Yes, I do too. I think I'll lock him out tonight so he can wander the streets and think about what he's done.

LOL. (I WANT PICS.) He wasted all that money on bad seating too! Ooooo.

Photos from the LND official program have surfaced on artistkae's photobucket account from over at poto.com: https://s45.photobucket.com/albums/f87/artistkae/?newest=1

Lo and behold, there's the must-debated Peacock Costume:



... and is that the Love Doll, or Sierra with a really dead expression? (Note photo of the Vegas chandelier in the background)



I might just want to have one of these programs for the heck of it...

~Madame~

In response to the Peacock costume: WICKED ALREADY DID IT, WHO GIVES A FLIPPITY FEK?

Now that it's been said, look at the ugliness. Is that Raoul or Joe Gillis from Sunset Boulevard? Hrm. I guess the Adelphi Theatre went through a time warp.

The peacock cape is...underwhelming, actually. I dunno, maybe it looks better live, but I was expecting something a bit more elaborate and feathery, instead of just a basic screen print. And what the Hell is going on here?



Fred and Ginger, or Stanley and Blanche?

~LCD

My question: why is Raoul cringing from the Phantom at the bar? He's already seen his face quite well in the original show.

SenorSwanky wrote:My question: why is Raoul cringing from the Phantom at the bar? He's already seen his face quite well in the original show.

Maybe being drunk off his butt makes the Phantom's face seem all the more terrifying? And remember, Raoul knows that the Phantom has killed before - he might be recoiling in fear of imminent Punjabbing (or if we go by Vegas, he might be preparing to dodge an iron cage full of sharp pointy things that falls from the ceiling of the bar).

~Madame~

SenorSwanky wrote:My question: why is Raoul cringing from the Phantom at the bar? He's already seen his face quite well in the original show.

Maybe Joseph saw the fate of his carreer with this musical.

The zingers are flying.

I'm so disgusted with this musical, I honestly don't care if I offend the actors who are in it or the musical in general.

Madame Giry wrote:Photos from the LND official program have surfaced on artistkae's photobucket account from over at poto.com: https://s45.photobucket.com/albums/f87/artistkae/?newest=1

... and is that the Love Doll, or Sierra with a really dead expression? (Note photo of the Vegas chandelier in the background)

Wait a minute!!! Isn't that a ROPE around Christine/LoveDoll's NECK that Mister Y is holding onto????

operaphan wrote:

Madame Giry wrote:Photos from the LND official program have surfaced on artistkae's photobucket account from over at poto.com: https://s45.photobucket.com/albums/f87/artistkae/?newest=1

... and is that the Love Doll, or Sierra with a really dead expression? (Note photo of the Vegas chandelier in the background)

Wait a minute!!! Isn't that a ROPE around Christine/LoveDoll's NECK that Mister Y is holding onto????

I guess Christine is into bondage now. Although I think it looks like Meg.

SenorSwanky wrote:My question: why is Raoul cringing from the Phantom at the bar? He's already seen his face quite well in the original show.

Maybe The Phantom...excuse me, Mr. Y...has really foul breath?

From what someone who saw the show posted over on poto.com, the rope is going around the neck of the Chrissy doll. Don't remember why, though...

HDKingsbury wrote:From what someone who saw the show posted over on poto.com, the rope is going around the neck of the Chrissy doll. Don't remember why, though...

To borrow from our very own Raphael, maybe Raoul isn't the only male lead in the show with an autoerotic asphyxiation fetish...

~Madame~

*snorth laugh*

I saw the show last Monday night on the final preview. I thought I'd share some thoughts so that I can get them off my chest! It's taken me till now to try and get some intelligent comments together because whenever I try it usually degenerates into RAAAAAGH and WHHHHY? They're not in a very comprehensive order because I don't think I can with this show! Warning: It's loooooong and there will be SPOILERS below!


I went in trying to keep an open mind and to see the good in the show when it was there. I'd read a lot about it on the internet before so I was prepared for the story and character horrors. I'd also got hold of the leaked cast recording so I was familiar with the music. I'm glad I listened to it before I went in because I didn't like it at all on first hearing. After a few listens I really enjoy the music and think the title song especially is lovely. It is a bit of a mishmash but it does work in the show (well.... as well as anything works in this show!). It is a shame because there really are the ingredients for a very good show there, but it's been thrown away on an appalling story and warped characters. The first part of act two was actually really really good. From the confrontation between the Phantom and Raoul, throughout where Christine decides whether to sing or not, and into the actual performance of Love Never Dies, the show actually caught my attention, made me interested and just about moved me. 'Love Never Dies' really is the highlight of the show, it's staged really well and sent shivers down my spine. Unfortunately it's pretty much the only highlight in the entire show.

Christine as a character just hasn't developed at all from PotO and Sierra doesn't really have anything to work with. This alienated me straight away as one of the things I find very important in the original is having an interesting Christine. The butchering of Raoul's character is very sad to see. As much as I hate it, they still could have made it work if they hadn't been so clunky in the writing of it. 'Why Does She Love Me' has lots of promise and the moment when Christine reads his note saying he is leaving is sung to the Little Lotte melody and should have been really moving... and wasn't! But the most infuriating characterisation is definitely the Phantom's. He just... isn't the Phantom! He's the dark brooding male in a romance novel - wearing a frilly shirt! No mystery or sense of danger at all! In his first scene, just after he's sung 'Till I Hear you Sing', Meg and Mme Giry interrupt him and Mme Giry ends up breaking the arm off of the Christine bot (after drawing back a curtain to reveal it whilst singing 'compared to the things the master must do'...)! Rather than going into a complete Phantom rage over the damage to 'his Christine', he half-heartedly threatens her with a gun but then lets her take it off him and then stands there whilst she lectures him on all he owes them! It felt so wrong so see the Phantom standing there so normally with people on the stage and being so ...un-Phantom-y!

One of the major things that reeaaaally bugs me in this show is the way Christine's choice is treated. She chose not to be with the obsessive stalker and to be with the nice safe guy who loved her. Now the nice safe guy is a gambling borderline-abusive alcoholic who doesn't like 'his own' kid and the stalker is the nice guy whom the kid loves - the implication being that she made the wrong decision by going with the healthy 'boring' relationship and she'd have had a better family life with the obsessive stalker! There's an unspoken suggestion that Meg's break down is Christine's fault because it would never have happened if she had chosen the Phantom originally. And therefore Christine would never have been killed if she'd just made the 'right' decision in the first place. So girls, don't pick the nice guy - he'll just resent you for it because he knows that he can never live up to your truuuuue dark love - pick the violent murderer because the purity of your love will transform him into a caring, sane man who can be a good father! If you do, he'll neeeeever hurt you and you'll live happily ever after - and if you don't, you'll be miserable and get shot! Not the healthiest message to be sending out really...

Something that isn't on the cast recording is a little reprise of the Phantom's notes. It uses the same melody and echoey Phantom voice offstage. He sings something like: "Bring the child up here to me./ It is time I repay him his debt/ If it's dark he wants to see, then dark is what he'll get" Actually rather creepy, as is the fact that the Phantom calls Gustave 'the little Vicomte' at first! I have a very low opinion of Christine's mothering skills if she would leave her son alone with the psychopathic murderer that kidnapped her and nearly killed her husband when he doesn't know the boy is his! - actually an interesting and slightly less out-of-character plot would have been if the Phantom had killed the kid, thinking it was Raoul's son. Now that could have been a dramatic story! Unfortunately I can't really picture this Phantom hurting any one! Though actually there was one moment where he grabbed Christine by the throat when he was trying to get her to confess to Gustave being his son. I'm glad they still had him having some temper, though of course this makes Christine look even more stupid for choosing him in the end.

The Beauty Underneath. ...just... no words. Who thought... why... I mean, really. My jaw actually dropped and I was trying not to laugh. Just... incomprehensible. Almost worth the ticket price just to see this crack on stage. The giant silvery monkey/skull/darth vader thumping its hands down over and over on this weird giant silver organ BAM BAM BAM BAM and waving snake head medusa chandelier and... has to be seen to be believed.

I found it totally ridiculous that the Phantom voluntarily removes his mask and wig to show Gustave his face. I cannot believe that would ever happen. And then he just leaves it off for the rest of the scene and walks out of his lair leaving it on the piano! Ridiculous. Though on a plus point the deformity was really good, it looked very skull like - actually almost better than the original from a distance! And I liked that Christine still found it difficult to look at him rather than just 'we've had sex and now I think you're beeeeeeautiful'!

'And I kissed you/ And caressed you/ And I took you/ Again and then again' ... Glenn Slater, put down the Mills and Boon. I've rather enjoyed telling people the lyrics of this song and seeing the expression on their faces when I convince them that no, these words are actually written and actually used in the show!

I loved 'My Dear Old Friend'. Performed perfectly, very subtle and funny! I had a smile on my face throughout this song. Great counterpart to Prima Donna.

Mme Giry didn't have the awful French accent she does on the recording, thank god! Meg also wasn't quite as peppy and bouncy as on the cd, a lot less irritating! The Bathing Beauty number is performed very well, there are lots of quick costume changes that are quite impressive. Also, the topless moment actually did work in the context of the song and moment in the show. And I didn't see a thing! I don't understand why it's Mme Giry singing the big angry climax to act one whilst Meg just stands at the edge, literally in the shadows and then runs on right at the very end. It would make a lot more dramatical sense for it to be Meg revealing her feelings, seeing as she's the one who goes psycho!

The final scene just didn't really work. Again, a shame because the music has great emotional trigger moments but these are broken by the clunky staging of it. The moment where Christine was shot wasn't done very realistically and I found it jarring how she yelled to Gustave so suddenly that the Phantom was his father. It all felt very awkward with Gustave and Meg crying in separate corners of the stage but not really doing anything else and then the Phantom putting down Christine! It just needs complete rethinking really, it does not work at all.

I find it hard to judge the performances as I was in the upper circle and didn't have binoculars so couldn't see the facial expressions very well. Vocally all the leads were fantastic. I didn't find Ramin had the presence that he did in the original (though I largely blame that on the staging and the ordinary nature of the Phantom in this, rather than his acting skills) I saw Ramin from the front row in his early standby days, his performance was amazing, one of the most intense Phantoms I've ever seen. I remember his eyes glowing with intensity when he looked at Christine and I was totally fixated on his performance. There wasn't any sense of that in this at all. Again, I was far from the stage so I could be misjudging. But none of the performances projected well to the upper circle, I felt very disconnected from the show - except for in the title song which Sierra performed amazingly.

I kind of get why ALW seems to be having such difficulty deciding whether to call it a standalone show or a sequel. It does completely throw off the characterisations and there are no mentions of the kidnapping, threats or murders so you don't need to have seen the original - the only links are the mask and the character names really! But he does use *lots* of musical motifs from the original - Angel of Music, Little Lotte, the riff of the title song, I Remember, Notes, Prima Donna, the cemetery music in the film, Twisted Every Way... that's pretty much everything except for the 'hit single' numbers that most people know! I find the Twisted Every Way reprise very interesting. It actually uses the whole song but it cuts the lyrics so that all there is is "Twisted every way, what answer can I give? I know I can't refuse and yet I wish I could... oh God...". This kind of totally sums up the show in one song: it's the same plot but without any mention of 'kills without a thought, he murders all that's good' or 'what horrors wait for me'. And there's nothing in the story to replace that danger and tension except for Gustave and Meg - very weak plot devices. And to add insult to injury, the Phantom sings 'Christine, Christine don't think that I don't care' and Raoul then sings 'but every hope and every prayer rest on you now" - the Phantom takes over the nice gentle part of Raoul's original line and Raoul is left with the demanding part - like their whole characterisation in the show!

I think that it says a lot that the moments that I found worked and felt most connected to the characters were the scenes that were focused on the Phantom, Christine and music. The 'Love Never Dies' number works because it is largely about her singing his music again and him hearing her sing again. The joy and passion of the characters that comes out from that is really dramatic to watch. 'Till I Hear You Sing' also works because of this fact, though not as well - though I do really like the idea that he can't write good music any more without her around. Although I do enjoy speculating about E/C romance and reading fanfiction based on it, I don't want it to actually happen! Personally, I think the fundamentals of their relationship is as teacher and muse - though there are multiple levels and complications which is what makes the original so fascinating! Reducing their relationship to a straightforward romance plot as 'Beneath a Moonless Sky' and 'Once Upon Another Time', do doesn't work because they make their relationship all about sexual love and neglects everything else that makes them interesting! I was talking to a friend about it and she was like 'wait... what, but I really liked that Freudian Father/Phantom/Angel stuff and now... ew'.

I know Phantom isn't an intellectual masterpiece, but it doesn't treat its audience as stupid - there are interesting themes going on. The only thinking I was doing in LND was 'wait... what?!!! WHAT???' ALW always goes on about the fact they never knew what made the original work so well. I think part of what makes anything a classic is ambiguous layers to the plot that allow people to have different readings of it and triggers discussion and thought after experiencing it. This sequel doesn't have any of that. It's so straightforward and poorly put together, there's nothing subtle or complex about it. And I'm incredibly disappointed that ALW sees this as a worthy follow up to Phantom!

Sorry for the waffle, hope it was readable/ of interest!

HDKingsbury wrote:From what someone who saw the show posted over on poto.com, the rope is going around the neck of the Chrissy doll. Don't remember why, though...

I remember it as the Phantom putting a necklace on the Christine doll. I was far away but he gently draped it on her like a necklace and it looked like he did up a catch, and he left it on her neck. It was done quite sensually. Though it really looks like a rope up close in that picture...! Strange taste in jewellery?

SenorSwanky wrote:My question: why is Raoul cringing from the Phantom at the bar? He's already seen his face quite well in the original show.

One of the few things I really liked in the show was that everyone still found it extremely difficult to look at the Phantom's face. Gustave ran off screaming, Christine had to turn away when she first saw him without the mask and Raoul looked horrified. So they didn't prettify him at all, or romanticize his deformity, which is something.

Lucy wrote:One of the few things I really liked in the show was that everyone still found it extremely difficult to look at the Phantom's face. Gustave ran off screaming, Christine had to turn away when she first saw him without the mask and Raoul looked horrified. So they didn't prettify him at all, or romanticize his deformity, which is something.

To some extent, I like that, but Christine did say, "This haunted face holds no horror for me now" in the final scene of the original.

SenorSwanky wrote:

Lucy wrote:One of the few things I really liked in the show was that everyone still found it extremely difficult to look at the Phantom's face. Gustave ran off screaming, Christine had to turn away when she first saw him without the mask and Raoul looked horrified. So they didn't prettify him at all, or romanticize his deformity, which is something.

To some extent, I like that, but Christine did say, "This haunted face holds no horror for me now" in the final scene of the original.

Exactly. For sake, Webber, have some continuity.

ML6 wrote:

SenorSwanky wrote:

Lucy wrote:One of the few things I really liked in the show was that everyone still found it extremely difficult to look at the Phantom's face. Gustave ran off screaming, Christine had to turn away when she first saw him without the mask and Raoul looked horrified. So they didn't prettify him at all, or romanticize his deformity, which is something.

To some extent, I like that, but Christine did say, "This haunted face holds no horror for me now" in the final scene of the original.

Exactly. For sake, Webber, have some continuity.

Yes, but seeing something nasty in dim light is one thing, seeing the same thing in a well lit room 10 years later is another. Who knows, it may have gotten worse (whatever condition he has) it is even done a bit more gruesome this time around with a much bigger hole in the head.

ML6 wrote:

SenorSwanky wrote:

Lucy wrote:One of the few things I really liked in the show was that everyone still found it extremely difficult to look at the Phantom's face. Gustave ran off screaming, Christine had to turn away when she first saw him without the mask and Raoul looked horrified. So they didn't prettify him at all, or romanticize his deformity, which is something.

To some extent, I like that, but Christine did say, "This haunted face holds no horror for me now" in the final scene of the original.

Exactly. For sake, Webber, have some continuity.

What bothers me is that they seem to be pushing this notion that Christine rejected the Phantom simply because he was ugly. First off, it makes her look shallow, and second it ignores the fact that there were many very obvious problems with their relationship.

The more I read of LND, the more Mr. Y sounds like Edward Cullen--he's being set up as this big brooding romantic love but if you stop and think about it for a second he's just a creepy jerk.

~LCD

So, 3.16.09, the day that Love Should Die was shut down by RUG (and supporters of the show). Love Should Die, I salute you for uniting us all as one. <3