Re: Love Never Dies - all views allowed

Scorp Wed Oct 20, 2010 6:29 pm

Surprise! LND London (possibly/probably) to be reworked with a completely new creative team. This isn't even a case of Sunset Blvd now...this is, well...unprecedented (if true)?

Bill Kenwright though = Laughing

Source of rumour: http://www.whatsonstage.com/board/index.php?showtopic=28443

operafantomet Wed Oct 20, 2010 6:52 pm

OK.... What I'm thinking is that until they do something with the show's main issues, namely the storyline and lyrics, they can keep pouring millions into changing the visuals, but for what cause? The show's problem is not the choreography or the costumes or even the directing, it's the basic material. With a libretto from hell you can't create a winning musical.

The thread you linked to said there would be major scrips changes, but I don't believe that. I think there'll be cosmetic lyric and story changes as we have seen already, and new visuals. maybe a song cut, another changed and another added. I dunno, I'm ready to be positively surprised, but ALW seems so set on what he wants to keep and not (judging from changes done so far). I think the ship has sailed on this one.

Kudos to the cast for making it half decent (as such, it's definitely not my cup of tea, but I can still tell that this musical would have flopped in a much more epic way with a less competent cast). And I'm looking forward to hear all the juicy stories soon-to-be-ex-creative-team will share with us in a couple of years about working with ALW on this doomed project... Twisted Evil

Alyssa Thu Oct 21, 2010 1:11 am

operafantomet wrote:OK.... What I'm thinking is that until they do something with the show's main issues, namely the storyline and lyrics, they can keep pouring millions into changing the visuals, but for what cause? The show's problem is not the choreography or the costumes or even the directing, it's the basic material. With a libretto from hell you can't create a winning musical.

I agree. From the few production photo's I have seen the costumes are lovely (Minus Ramin's Fabio/Seinfeld Pirate shirt) and the "I think it's a rotating balcony scene" for Beneath a Moonless Sky seem pretty epic.

What I keep hearing about is how unnecessary the over-use of projection is. So maybe that's one of the changes they're making?

The thread you linked to said there would be major script changes, but I don't believe that. I think there'll be cosmetic lyric and story changes as we have seen already, and new visuals. maybe a song cut, another changed and another added. I dunno, I'm ready to be positively surprised, but ALW seems so set on what he wants to keep and not (judging from changes done so far). I think the ship has sailed on this one.

*crosses fingers for Beauty Underneath to be cut*

I would be ecstatic to see lyric changes (Allegedly some changes have been made already but I'm stuck in Southern California so all I have available is the LND soundtrack). In the long run, I just don't see what can be done to make this "awesome." The biggest difference is ALW was madly in love with Sarah Brightman at the time and he kept working on it until it's what we know and love today.

Right now, ALW is just Mad. And possibly high on prescription pot he got to help alleviate the pain from his prostate cancer.

Scorp Fri Oct 22, 2010 1:21 am

Don't do it, Charlie, you don't need the money! Stick to photography!

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'Phantom' sequel goes dark (briefly) in London
West End production to shutter for four perfs in November
By DAVID BENEDICT for VARIETY – 21 October 2010

The West End production of "Love Never Dies," Andrew Lloyd Webber's sequel to long-running smash "The Phantom of the Opera," will shut down for four performances Nov. 22-25 in order to incorporate script and lyric changes being made for the upcoming Australian incarnation.

According to industry buzz, producer Bill Kenwright will direct the changes, most of which concern the development of the problematic first act. Also unconfirmed is word the new lyrics are by Charles Hart, one of the lyricists of "Phantom," Shocked

with new choreography by Bill Deamer.

"Love Never Dies" will begin its international rollout in Melbourne in May.

Speaking Thursday via satellite from London to Australian media, Lloyd Webber said the tuner would be produced by his Asia Pacific representative Tim McFarlane. Helmed by Melbourne's Simon Phillips ("Priscilla, Queen of the Desert") at the Regent Theater, it will have a new design by Sydney-based Gabriela Tylesova.

A Toronto version of "Love Never Dies" -- with yet another helmer attached -- is also said to be in the works. That one is tipped to be directed by Craig Revel Horwood, who staged a pared-down version of Webber's "Sunset Boulevard" in London in 2008, and it's understood that the Toronto staging is the one slated for an eventual stint on Broadway.

The original director and choreographer of "Love Never Dies" have already confirmed the move on to their next project, with helmer Jack O'Brien and choreographer Jerry Mitchell set to stage the tuner adaptation of "Catch Me If You Can" in a Broadway run that begins previews March 7 at the Neil Simon Theater.

"Love Never Dies" opened on the West End in March, and despite widely available ticket discounts recently announced a four-month extension to its booking period, taking the run up to May 28 at the Adelphi Theater.

According to a statement issued by Webber's Really Useful Group, "Some changes were written up over the summer and destined for the Australian production and as they make improvements to the show we'd be mad not to put them into the Adelphi (production)."

-----

I'm hoping Hart is only credited because he noticed someone had naughtily reprised 'Twisted Every Way' without crediting him for the lyrics (even though Christine hilariously and tellingly omits the lines about the Phantom murdering everyone to make him look a realistic choice, which just sums up everything that's bad about LND in a single moment).

Either way, it's obvious ALW's fallen out with Glenn Slater as well as pretty much everyone else on the original team. Slater got dumped from Wizard of Oz in favour of some guy called Tim Rice...

operafantomet Fri Oct 22, 2010 6:04 am

Again: the juicy stories these guys will be able to tell.....! Smile

Phantomlove Fri Oct 22, 2010 7:37 am

And here I was thinking that the libretto and lyrics to Love Never Dies were the best that ALW has had in many, many years. Didn't he say something to that effect when it opened?

ETA: I really hope Charles Hart stays clear of this.

EarlFan Fri Oct 22, 2010 3:20 pm

Ugh, it keeps getting worse. Shocked

The whole show is like a soap opera and now everything around it turns into a big soap opera as well. Juicy, indeed. How many will ALW have fallen out with before this ends Rolling Eyes

operafantomet Fri Oct 22, 2010 3:54 pm

Danish Phantom Flemming Enevold went to see "Love Never Dies" some months ago. His response to the camera was that "If we could start from scratch, with new directing/staging, and new scenography, and cut and paste a bit" it has potential. He liked the score. Det Ny Teater's director/manager Valbro calls Andrew Lloyd Webber one of the greatest composers of our time. But as for LND his response to the camera was that "It can be done better (than that)." (Det ka' gøres bedre).

Or as the reporter say: "This is what hundred million Phantom fans has waited for, but two of them (both Enevold and Valbro loves POTO) aren't all that impressed....". Underwhelmed might be the word, but they don't appear to have hated it. And seeing their reaction, it's not impossible we'll see it on Det Ny Teater in a couple of years. I won't be first in line, though... Not even if Enevold plays Mr.~~Ken~~ Y

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yg19HfLnNks

Scorp Sat Oct 23, 2010 12:45 pm

Phantomlove wrote:And here I was thinking that the libretto and lyrics to Love Never Dies were the best that ALW has had in many, many years. Didn't he say something to that effect when it opened?

ETA: I really hope Charles Hart stays clear of this.

Baz 'LND is a masterpiece' Bamigboye confirms Charlie is getting involved... Sad

THE lyricist Charles Hart has tinkered with some of the lyrics in Love Never Dies, and those and other changes will be put into the musical over a four-day period from November 22, when the show will go dark at the Adelphi.
Bill Kenwright will help put right some of its problems, which include the much-troubled ending. Initially, I heard Kenwright would be re-directing the show, but I’m told that’s not the case. In truth, the first night should have been postponed to get it right. It’s Andrew Lloyd Webber’s best score and I’m thrilled it will now be given the care it deserves. The composer and original Phantom Michael Crawford will be at Her Majesty’s Theatre for tomorrow’s matinee to mark the 10,000th show of The Phantom Of The Opera. My goodness!

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-1322727/Kathy-Burke-star-film-version-John-le-Carr-s-Tinker-Tailor-Soldier-Spy.html#ixzz13BYu20Zf

operafantomet Sat Oct 23, 2010 2:46 pm

In truth, the first night should have been postponed to get it right.

Well, technically it was... or wait, that was the overpriced previews. And ya don't say. Finishing the show before presenting it as a masterpiece is a very good idea indeed.

Scorp Sat Oct 23, 2010 3:02 pm

Meanwhile Revel Horwood denies having anything to do with LND, whose Toronto production may not happen at all...

ML6 Sat Oct 23, 2010 3:49 pm

Wait, wasn't Charles Hart the one who wrote Learn to Be Lonely. That song was atrocious.

Has he done nothing good after Aspects of Love?

**Raphael** Sat Oct 23, 2010 4:05 pm

Scorp wrote:
The West End production of "Love Never Dies," Andrew Lloyd Webber's sequel to long-running smash "The Phantom of the Opera," will shut down for four performances Nov. 22-25 in order to incorporate script and lyric changes being made for the upcoming Australian incarnation.

It took the Lord God six days to create the world but little Lord Lloyd Webber plans to turn LND into the masterpiece he'd always intended in four? Good luck with that.

R.

operafantomet Sat Oct 23, 2010 4:11 pm

Raphael wrote:It took the Lord God six days to create the world but little Lord Lloyd Webber plans to turn LND into the masterpiece he'd always intended in four? Good luck with that.

R.

I'm thinking that the changes are already being rehearsed, and that the four day closing is more that of a dress rehearsal for the new version (I.E. playing it in full on stage). Something else would be madness....!

**Raphael** Sat Oct 23, 2010 5:03 pm

operafantomet wrote:
I'm thinking that the changes are already being rehearsed, and that the four day closing is more that of a dress rehearsal for the new version (I.E. playing it in full on stage). Something else would be madness....!

The only precedent I can think of for this sort of thing is Wildhorn's Scarlet Pimpernel. I think Douglas Sills was rehearsing the new show while he was still performing the old show at nights.

R.

IamErik771 Fri Oct 29, 2010 11:55 pm

New article about the Aussie production. Okay, let's do a quick run-through...

While Sir Andrew does not like to call Love Never Dies a "sequel" to his worldwide smash The Phantom of the Opera, the new musical continues the story of the relationship between the deformed Phantom and the beautiful soprano, Christine Daae.

The story is set 10 years on, in 1907, and moves from the Paris Opera to New York's home of freaks, Coney Island.

Uh-huh. So it continues the story, but it's not really a "sequel." Riiiight... And you'd think one of the easiest and most obvious changes would be fixing the date discrepancy.

As the story takes place 10 years on, Sir Andrew is looking for a more mature Phantom and Christine than what audiences saw in the original.

"We can't get away with a 30-year-old Phantom. He has to be older," Sir Andrew said.

Remind me again how old Ramin was when he was cast in the London production?

"In the original, Christine was only meant to be 18."

And your basis for this statement would be...? Seriously, name one 18-year-old who can sing the leading role in any opera.

And yeah, I definitely hope Charles Hart isn't lowering himself to the level of acknowledging this thing, let alone redoing lyrics for it.

Scorp Sat Oct 30, 2010 2:47 am

IamErik771 wrote:
As the story takes place 10 years on, Sir Andrew is looking for a more mature Phantom and Christine than what audiences saw in the original.

"We can't get away with a 30-year-old Phantom. He has to be older," Sir Andrew said.
Remind me again how old Ramin was when he was cast in the London production?

WTF? No words. Seriously.

Every time the Lord opens his mouth, I get a rather tragic picture in my head of his multiple PR teams having seizures in the background. Actually make that comic, rather than tragic.

I would love to hear what Ramin Karimloo and Sierra Boggess think of this statement.

Anyone reckon those two will be the next in line to be hiring lawyers after Jack O'Brien and Jerry Mitchell?

operafantomet Sat Oct 30, 2010 7:52 am

IamErik771 wrote:[color=green]
"In the original, Christine was only meant to be 18."
And your basis for this statement would be...? Seriously, name one 18-year-old who can sing the leading role in any opera.

Well, it's better than all those movie fanatics claiming she was "only 16"... But "we can't get away with a 30-year-old Phantom"? WTF? Laughing

Like everybody else I totally agree that Ramin Karimloo was way too young to play sequel!Phantom. Heck, I thought he was too young for the original. But ALW seems to always change his mind/words when he has jumped on a new project. I dislike the inconsistency of his opinions. He's ready to trash anything he has hailed as fantastic, isn't he?

In the mean time, LND seems to win quite a few awards at the TheatreFans 2010 award arranged by ~~RUG~~ Broadwayworld UK. I'm not surprised Ramin Karimloo wins for best male lead, I don't think anyone has done thus much in a role to convince the audience. But "Best direction" and "Best scenic design"? Another "WTF??". Especially since the very same persons has been sent to the scraps when the new Aussie production is put together.

LadyCDaae Sat Oct 30, 2010 1:56 pm

operafantomet wrote:

In the mean time, LND seems to win quite a few awards at the TheatreFans 2010 award arranged by ~~RUG~~ Broadwayworld UK. I'm not surprised Ramin Karimloo wins for best male lead, I don't think anyone has done thus much in a role to convince the audience. But "Best direction" and "Best scenic design"? Another "WTF??". Especially since the very same persons has been sent to the scraps when the new Aussie production is put together.

I don't set much store by "people's choice" awards, especially nowadays. All you need is a small but fanatical group of people to spam the voting site.

~LCD

operafantomet Tue Nov 02, 2010 11:07 am

God, I'm tired of people spamming the official POTO FB site with LND stuff. Evil or Very Mad

Scorp Tue Nov 02, 2010 2:08 pm

LadyCDaae wrote:
operafantomet wrote:

In the mean time, LND seems to win quite a few awards at the TheatreFans 2010 award arranged by ~~RUG~~ Broadwayworld UK. I'm not surprised Ramin Karimloo wins for best male lead, I don't think anyone has done thus much in a role to convince the audience. But "Best direction" and "Best scenic design"? Another "WTF??". Especially since the very same persons has been sent to the scraps when the new Aussie production is put together.

I don't set much store by "people's choice" awards, especially nowadays. All you need is a small but fanatical group of people to spam the voting site.

~LCD

No-one can take those awards seriously. They're incredibly biased in favour of musicals, when in reality London has been far stronger for straight plays this year. And only a teenage fangirl could vote for Ramin Karimloo as a more accomplished actor than formidable straight play actors like Mark Rylance etc. Rolling Eyes

Anyway, I'm not voting for anything LND-related. I'd urge people to vote for Legally Blonde in the Best Musical category as, although it's not my cup of tea, it's neck-and-neck between that and LND...

Bric Tue Nov 02, 2010 6:26 pm

No one who knows much about these awards takes them seriously, but the shows that do well use them in advertising. Lots of people who see the advertising have no clue about whether or not the awards are meaningful.

Madame Giry Tue Nov 23, 2010 2:59 am

Looks like LND won a lot of categories in this totally legit and un-rigged BWW popular vote awards contest. Razz

Surprise, surprise...

http://broadwayworld.com/article/LOVE_NEVER_DIES_The_Big_Winner_In_First_BWWUK_Awards_20101122

I love how one commenter argues that the original Phantom had to be heavily reworked before going to Broadway from London, just like LND is now. *eyeroll*

~Madame~

operafantomet Tue Nov 23, 2010 6:44 am

Madame Giry wrote:I love how one commenter argues that the original Phantom had to be heavily reworked before going to Broadway from London, just like LND is now. *eyeroll*

~Madame~

Yeah, it was soooo heavily reworked. They had to change... some of the cast, one costume and the Italian phrases in Prima Donna, after all. It was a totally different production. Rolling Eyes

Bric Tue Nov 23, 2010 7:37 am

As it happens, three musicals have made the short list for the Evening Standard Awards. Love Never Dies is not one of them.

The three nominees are Legally Blonde, the Cameron Mackintosh Barbican Theatre production of Les Miserables, and the Donmar Warehouse Passion.

I rather think Evening Standard Awards won't be much mentioned by fans of LND.

LadyCDaae Tue Nov 23, 2010 2:16 pm

Madame Giry wrote:Looks like LND won a lot of categories in this totally legit and un-rigged BWW popular vote awards contest.

Surprise, surprise...

http://broadwayworld.com/article/LOVE_NEVER_DIES_The_Big_Winner_In_First_BWWUK_Awards_20101122

I love how one commenter argues that the original Phantom had to be heavily reworked before going to Broadway from London, just like LND is now. *eyeroll*

~Madame~

And that is why LND is sold out a year in advance like PotO was, instead of having to resort to papering the house to put butts in the seats.

Oh, wait...

~LCD

Madame Giry Tue Nov 23, 2010 4:47 pm

Bric wrote:As it happens, three musicals have made the short list for the Evening Standard Awards. Love Never Dies is not one of them.

The three nominees are Legally Blonde, the Cameron Mackintosh Barbican Theatre production of Les Miserables, and the Donmar Warehouse Passion.

I rather think Evening Standard Awards won't be much mentioned by fans of LND.

Oh they'll probably just argue that the Evening Standard Awards are selected by snobbish elitist theatre people who are just jealous of ALW and the fact that he writes shows that people like and make money. Besides, The Masses have spoken and have picked LND as their favorite. Who can argue with that? </sarcasm>

That being said, I am glad to hear that LND got snubbed by the ESA. *thumbs up*

~Madame~

SenorSwanky Tue Nov 23, 2010 5:09 pm

Didn't Phantom win a bunch of Evening Standards?

Madame Giry Tue Nov 23, 2010 5:23 pm

It won the 1986 award for Best Musical. Other categories it could have qualified for at the time were shared with plays or did not yet exist.

~Madame~

SenorSwanky Tue Nov 23, 2010 5:50 pm

Madame Giry wrote:It won the 1986 award for Best Musical. Other categories it could have qualified for at the time were shared with plays or did not yet exist.

~Madame~

Well, that just shoots the LND sycophants' arguments right out of the water.

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