Love Never Dies - all views allowed

Phans,

This evening I had the opportunity to speak with 'The Real Phantom' - creator of the Love Should Die campaign and twitter/facebook pages. I'll refer to him as LSD going forward.

To start the conversation, LSD stated, "Mr Timmons, your name has flooded my inbox this morning from journalists asking if I know who you are. What is it that you'd like me to do?" I of course told him we wanted to know the truth behind the removal of the FB page, while asking if he had been in contact with the press.

LSD stated 'a certain organization took it upon themselves to target the group to get rid of it'. Surprisingly, the FB page was NOT removed because of copyright infringement. As we all know, there was nothing copyrighted located on the page...and those very very few instances where something popped up, it was removed by the user almost immediately. The only way RUG was able to take down the site was to read over the Terms of Service to find just one problem with the page...and that they found. FB removed the page and advised LSD they, "violated the Terms of Service because the page was not linked to a personal account, but a 'fake' one."

This being said, we all know MANY pages and accounts (some phans reading this note now!) contain 'fake' account names....yet these people and groups were not targeted - only the LSD group. Why would 'facebook' target only this group out of the blue? Coincidence? I think not. For example, one LND page I found this evening was created by a guy with a fake name - why is this still up and running? They also use the actual logo from the show as their logo - Copyrighted material!

I was able to persuade LSD to speak to at least one member of the press (from the UK publication - The Telegraph). The reporter had contacted me almost immediately stating the story was great and needed just a few more details before he could run with it. Let's cross our fingers LSD connects with him. LSD also mentioned he was thinking of declining an interview request with The Times, citing, "I have my own personal interests to care about." I tried to persuade him to take the interview, but he never continued with the topic. Let us hope he takes the 2nd interview...

Sadly, he mentioned, "I am not unhappy to be rid of the whole business. It gives me time to complete my funeral mass for @loveneverdies." He goes on to say, "Mr Timmons, I suggest you campaign on my and everyone's behalf for the next few months. I must complete my mass. Then Broadway beckons. O.G." He ends with, "I may not necessarily return. I've destroyed the word of mouth in Europe; perhaps you can do the same in N America? All the best-The Phantom"

WIth the truth behind the removal of the FB page, I suggest we advise our media outlets that the page was NOT removed because of copyright infringement and let them know the truth. I for one will be contacting Mark Shenton regarding his article posted this morning and will ask for him to correct his '4pm update'. Sure, TOS were violated - but it wasnt violated for illegal activity...it was because a genius wanted to hide behind a mask...

Let's continue the battle my phriends!

~PhantomJT~
p.s. He also wanted me to tell you this: "Please alert my audience that the various new 'Love Should Die' sites are not by me. Anything I am responsible for will be tweeted here." [meaning his Twitter account: www.twitter.com/LoveShouldDie]

So RUG had LSD taken down based on a detail in Facebook's TOS. Sounds like corporate lawyers doing what they're paid to do.

So now that the facts - as they are - are out in the open, I would suggest any LSD-inspired sites and social media pages make themselves as bulletproof as possible so RUG won't have a leg to stand on if they attempt to silence them as well.

R.

PhantomJT wrote:The only way RUG was able to take down the site was to read over the Terms of Service to find just one problem with the page...and that they found. FB removed the page and advised LSD they, "violated the Terms of Service because the page was not linked to a personal account, but a 'fake' one."

Seriously, RUG? Seriously?

That's just plain pathetic. This "little group of 4 or 5 people" is so threatening that they would nitpick the whole page in order to find something to violate the TOS?

I honestly don't know what to say about all this. But I blame it 100% on the members of that stupid LND Unofficial group. They bombarded LND and Facebook with stuff about us, so I'm pretty sure Facebook got tired of it, or LND took it futher to figure out if there was some loop hole in all this and get rid of them.

The drama surrounding this monstrosity just keeps getting better and better.


Jeff, that video was fantastic. I've only heard TIHYS before, and the preview clips off Amazon.
Gah. Beauty Underneath nearly killed a little of my soul. Just a wee bit though. And the hilarity of the video resuscitated it.

ML6 wrote:I honestly don't know what to say about all this. But I blame it 100% on the members of that stupid LND Unofficial group. They bombarded LND and Facebook with stuff about us, so I'm pretty sure Facebook got tired of it, or LND took it futher to figure out if there was some loop hole in all this and get rid of them.

While I am disgusted with the state of things, I would hesitate before lying the blame exclusively at the feet of the pro-LND fans on Facebook. Of the two potential powers behind the removal of LSD, RUG or disgruntled LND fans, I would put my money on RUG as the party that Facebook would be more likely to listen to. I am sure that Facebook gets assailed with complaints about various groups and members every day and a spat between two little fan groups isn't going to make them take such drastic measures. Now, a threat from an international, multi-billion-dollar corporate entity on the other hand...

Nothing is for certain, but one can draw inferences and determine what is the more likely scenario.

~Madame~

Wow I'm away from my computer for a day and this all happens? talk about epic. Facebook may be decently powerful (or at least quickly climbing up that ladder) but they know not to screw around with big companies like RUG. It may have taken a petty TOS to give an actual excuse, but there have been PLENTY of groups taken down without warnings and little of a notion why.

Well take a look at this...

A note from the Love Never Dies team
Today at 11:38
RUG would like to make it clear that, contrary to various internet reports, we have no involvement in nor prior knowledge of the deletion of the Facebook page ‘Love Should Die’. The only people who are able to shut down a Facebook page are the administrators of the site or the original creators of the page itself. We have no wish to stifle public debate about the show, indeed we welcome it, as proved by the facility on the LOVE NEVER DIES website where the public can upload their reviews of the show, as well as this Facebook page, which has over 20,000 fans.

dolly-ry wrote:Well take a look at this...

A note from the Love Never Dies team
Today at 11:38
RUG would like to make it clear that, contrary to various internet reports, we have no involvement in nor prior knowledge of the deletion of the Facebook page ‘Love Should Die’. The only people who are able to shut down a Facebook page are the administrators of the site or the original creators of the page itself. We have no wish to stifle public debate about the show, indeed we welcome it, as proved by the facility on the LOVE NEVER DIES website where the public can upload their reviews of the show, as well as this Facebook page, which has over 20,000 fans.

where was this posted?

Love Never Dies (the official) fanpage on Facebook.

https://www.facebook.com/?ref=home#!/notes/love-never-dies/a-note-from-the-love-never-dies-team/369111613363

I think that is a direct link to it, if not apologies but if you search for the Love Never Dies page it is their latest post.

OK, so who then is the instigator? Because I know Facebook administrators themselves did not single out LSD.

It seems all too easy to point the finger at those fans who moaned about the very existence of LSD but in my opinion, RUG knew about it and are just trying to deny it. It is Facebooks policy if you report a group for abuse/ violation of TOS/ get it removed that they won't reveal to the group who it was who brought the complaint against them and succeeded in shutting it down. Therefore, RUG could say they weren't involved as really there is no way to find out who IS involved unless for some strange reason they out themselves.

This whole thing is getting pretty wild and untaimed. :\ Nobody knows anything anymore.

First of, may I say I love the little Family Guy cartoon you posted, ML6– LOL! Perfect!

Secondly, in regards to the statement that ‘only facebook administrators or the group creator can take down a facebook group’. Well, duh! But that doesn’t mean the request wasn’t initiated by the legal representatives of a large theatrical company – i.e. RUG – who had been looking for any reason to get LSD out of their hair, and out of the media!

My beef isn’t even just with this issue. I mean, it is, but it’s so much more than that. I had a rant to Jeff this morning (via our work emails – we’re both a bit distracted at the moment), and found it very cathartic, so if you’ll please humor me I thought I’d just copy and paste it here:

"Yes, the administrators of FB certainly can shut down a site. Especially once prompted by a powerful legal team looking for a reason to silence negative opinion. >:-( Angry! Though it seems we have RUGs attention. Why don’t they just treat phans better in the first place??? They have always done this! For years! By making it difficult for phans to celebrate milestone anniversaries (unless operated by another company – i.e., Livent), by hounding phans online in the 90s over website content, by insulting us over our feeling about the 2004 film, and then the sequel…. Don’t they realize we could be an effective and powerful positive marketing tool if they would only work with us instead of trying to put us down at every turn? You and I have certainly campaigned for POTO in a positive way in the past, promoted it, etc. We’d all be pleased as punch to do that – so long as ALW, RUG and the PTB stop referring to us as ‘sad’, ‘obsessive’, and implying we’re isolated loonies running through Haymarket in masks and capes. Which, btw, if there were only one ‘4 or 5’ of us would not be considered any kind of phenomenon, merely the same nuttiness that can be expected to happen in a place like Piccadilly Circus. Assuming it happens at all! Argh! Okay, that vent felt good…"

::sigh:: vent, vent, vent, and now back to office life....

In this ongoing parade of weird, the original LSD site seems to have been restored, 900+ members and all. We'll see how long THAT lasts.

~LCD

It's either the media loves LSD...

...


or, they're just looking for a story.

I'd be cautious. And, I'm curious what the team for LSD think about this. He [The Phantom] might have to make a new public statement now in regards to this surprising development.

I was thinking of going to see Phantom tomorrow night, but couldn't find a decent ticket despite searching multiple resellers.

Then, on a whim, I checked for Love Never Dies and there were many good Stalls seats left, including front row.

Shouldn't it still be selling out, so very early in its run? Or would a show not expect to reach maximum audience figures until a little way in?

I wonder how busy it is, night by night...

Mandrake if you can you should swing by Her Majesty's tomorrow evening around 5 pm or so, you would probably be able to get a decent ticket from the Box Office then.

In regards to LND I've heard from people that it has been packed every time they have went (no comment) and I've heard from other sources there have been quite a few spare seats. You would expect a new show on this scale to always be packed (Legally Blonde was and still is.)

Mandrake wrote:I was thinking of going to see Phantom tomorrow night, but couldn't find a decent ticket despite searching multiple resellers.

Then, on a whim, I checked for Love Never Dies and there were many good Stalls seats left, including front row.

Shouldn't it still be selling out, so very early in its run? Or would a show not expect to reach maximum audience figures until a little way in?

I wonder how busy it is, night by night...

Okay. I keep hearing stories about people being completely silent or crying at the end of it. And it's followed up with "the emotional impact of the show is fantastic" or stuff among those lines.

Could it be that they cry because the whole story has been severely raped?

But there you go, its a possible reason why it's not filling up - most see it once, and never again. Phantom has a charm that makes you coming back for more. LND has some crazy chick shooting one of the main characters, and ending it with her dropping off her kid on the Phantom's doorstep.

Mercy.

Mandrake wrote:I was thinking of going to see Phantom tomorrow night, but couldn't find a decent ticket despite searching multiple resellers.

Hopefully there will be some returns. I want to go tomorrow night, but I never got round to buying a ticket.

Mandrake wrote:I was thinking of going to see Phantom tomorrow night, but couldn't find a decent ticket despite searching multiple resellers.

Then, on a whim, I checked for Love Never Dies and there were many good Stalls seats left, including front row.

Shouldn't it still be selling out, so very early in its run? Or would a show not expect to reach maximum audience figures until a little way in?

I wonder how busy it is, night by night...

If I recall, before Phantom opened on Broadway, the box office had already sold out an entire year's worth of performances (I'd have to check my tapes of the news reports to be sure). So I imagine come November, we'll get an idea of how popular LND is. As well as how much it's bringing in on a weekly basis -- unless they decide to not release the B.O. numbers like the Mel Brooks' musicals did.

R.

Okay I saw Love Never Dies on Friday and will be posting a full un-biased review either later on or tomorrow. A few thoughts:

As far as I know it was not sold out Saturday evening and when I attended Phantom what did I see but the "sold out" sign once again, it is really selling out regularly now.

The first act most definitely is the major let down in the show.

It is too projection heavy.

That horse and carriage really DOES look plastic.

The peacock costume is not impressive at all.

And in the small print it says that another (uncredited) designer dealt solely with The Beauty Underneath - believe me, it shows!

dolly-ry wrote:And in the small print it says that another (uncredited) designer dealt solely with The Beauty Underneath - believe me, it shows!

In a good or bad way?

And from what I've seen of the peacock costume, it definitely seems overhyped. I expected actual feathers or handpaint, not a graphic-looking print.

Looking forward to reading your review.

I too was disappointed when I saw a photo of the actual peacock costume. Was also expecting something more WOW...not huh?

All right, this is going to seem extremely delayed. I've kept up with reading the plot and posts and whatnot, but I mean, I don't think anything really settled in until I read the plot in it's entirety. I avoided phantom of manhattan and i intend to keep it that way, but bits and pieces were sort of like little jabs at my phantom feelings. Sitting down and reading the entire thing just made me explode. I don't think I've ever ranted like that at a friend on ichat for anything. Swears and name calling and all.

I think I need a cigarette...

Finally found good quality scans of what appears to be most of the Love Never Dies program:
https://s80.photobucket.com/albums/j174/realityisdull/Love%20Never%20Dies/

Of course, the Aerie pages kinda... jumped out at me - and not exactly in a good way...



Ouch....

ETA: When I first saw that big winged lady set piece I knew they had ripped the design from this famous Art Nouveau period jewel by Rene Lalique:


ETA again to add: They also copied Alphonse Mucha's bronze sculpture of a woman for the head of the set piece:
~



Nice father-son moment... I guess.

Anyhow, click on link above to see more.

~Madame~

My God, it's like the Schumacher film threw up on stage.

~LCD

Okay. WHEN did the Phantom go for crap that looked like it came from a Ray Harryhausen film? That Aerie looks like it belongs in Clash of the Titans or Jason and the Argonauts than some Phantom musical.

Not only Schumacher vomiting on the stage, looks like he had explosive diarrhea on the stage as well. O_o

Bricabrac posted over on the poto.com forum that the LND website has an interactive Coney Island game section - which includes a "Whack-A-Clown" game.

Maybe I should add my own LND-inspired game to supplement the "Whack-A-Raoul" game on my site. It'll feature LND Christine and Meg and be called "Slap-A-Ho."

R.

Raphael wrote:Maybe I should add my own LND-inspired game to supplement the "Whack-A-Raoul" game on my site. It'll feature LND Christine and Meg and be called "Slap-A-Ho."

OMG. I love it! Do eeeeeeet.