Phantom, by Susan Kay

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Phantom, by Susan Kay

Post  Raphael on Tue Oct 13, 2009 12:19 am

I've always liked this one as a companion piece to Leroux's original. I feel it gives more insight into Erik as a person than Leroux was able to provide us with due to the constraints of the story structure he was using.

The hardcover edition from Llumina Press also features artwork by moi. Just sayin' Smile



R.


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Re: Phantom, by Susan Kay

Post  HDKingsbury on Tue Oct 13, 2009 2:33 am

I first read this book on a trip to Canada back when it originally came out, and I still have that old paperback copy. I was traveling with my mother, the two of us heading to Montreal to catch a weekend of ballet (Giselle) and hockey. Yeah, quite a combination, eh?

We'd stopped for the night at Kingston, Ontario. I went to one of the local drug stores to pick up some odds and ends, and as I always do, I looked at the books. There staring back at me was this book with a mask on the cover and the word PHANTOM in big letters. I picked it up to read the blurb. Could it be? I wondered. Yes, it was! A book about the Phantom!

I devoured that book! To this day I cannot remember if Montreal Canadiens won the hockey game...but I can tell you all about how I cried my eyes out at the end of the book! I never took this to replace Leroux, but to compliment it.

And that's your cover art, Raphael? Whoa! I didn't realize that. (Yes, in addition to my antique paperback copy, I also bought a hardcover edition when it was reissued.) Lovely image of Erik on the cover. *sigh*

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Re: Phantom, by Susan Kay

Post  IamErik771 on Tue Oct 13, 2009 6:17 pm

I always liked that picture, but had no idea Raph did it until I heard him say so on "All Things Phantom." Superb job on that cover!

I first found out the plot in a rather odd way – on FanFiction.net, someone had posted a fic titled "Susan Kay's 'Phantom': The Abridged Edition." It was basically the "POTO in 15 Minutes" formula, but applied to Kay's novel and with no such time constraint. Laughing Sadly, the fic was taken down... but not before I saved the first several chapters to my computer (right up to the bit where Kay starts retelling Leroux). 'Twas hilarious, and got me interested in finding the actual book.

Then in spring of '07, I went to a book fair at an annual carnival held at Punahou School (alma mater of such distinguished people as Ian Jon Bourg and our country's current President). I love that book fair because I can always find really great stuff for fantastic prices. That day, I was mainly looking for versions of the Leroux novel that I didn't already own. Didn't find any of those, but I did find a copy of Kay's novel (paperback)... for 50¢. Shocked The cover had a couple blemishes, but the pages were so pristine that I wondered if the previous owner had ever opened it before giving it away. If not, too bad for him/her... but great for me! Twisted Evil

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Re: Phantom, by Susan Kay

Post  Paula74 on Wed Oct 14, 2009 1:00 pm

Niiiiiiiiice cover.

I can't say I'm too crazy about the novel itself, though.

I read it when it was first published. My best friend/evil twin was also very into the OLCR at the time so we pounced on the book the minute it hit Barnes & Noble. For some reason, he never actually got around to reading the book, even though he bought it. Anyhow, I borrowed it and read it and never actually gave it back to him. I still have it.

When I first read it, I liked it. Didn't love it. Just liked.

After 2004, I hunted for the book and read it again, thinking I'd like it better. This time around, I liked it less. The writing style didn't really wow me and I just don't feel like I need THAT much of a backstory for Erik in the first place. And the parts that cover the same period as Leroux and the musical just read like a "lite' romance novel.

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Re: Phantom, by Susan Kay

Post  Amyable_Nature on Wed Oct 14, 2009 9:04 pm

I have the original paperback edition of the book. I bought it on amazon back in 2002 and I've read it once a year since then. It is falling apart. It actually split in half along the spine and I'm hoping the tape holds. I just need to buy it in hardcover now with Raphael's beautiful cover Very Happy

It's very descriptive and the new characters blend well within the story. Everything seems to fit together and come full circle at the end. But sadly, the end is what I don't like about the novel. I really wish I could say more without spoiling it, but she really sticks it Raoul. Poor guy. And I don't want to close the book feeling bad for him. But I do.

That said, I love Erik's childhood. The Persian's narrative is my favorite section of the whole novel. The struggle between good and evil is confined within Erik and the tension in this section is incredible. The one scene that gets me every time is on page 423 of the first edition when Erik visits with Nadir after Christine is first brought to the lair:
"This is not the way for a gentleman to win a lady," he said with difficulty, "and whatever else you may have been in your time, Erik, you've always been a gentleman...haven't you?"
I stared at him.
And suddenly, without any warning, I began to cry.
Crying or Very sad

There is plenty to poke fun of in this book and I'm not saying it's perfect. I've read Leroux's novel three times now but I actually feel like I've been somewhere when I read Kay's version. I know it's not the best, but I love it for what it is...except for the ending. Rolling Eyes


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Re: Phantom, by Susan Kay

Post  HerMajesty on Sat Oct 17, 2009 2:47 pm

I like this story, it's one of the only phanphics I do like along with Journey of the Mask, which is another interesting read.

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Re: Phantom, by Susan Kay

Post  Raphael on Sat Oct 17, 2009 5:43 pm

Paula74 wrote:The writing style didn't really wow me and I just don't feel like I need THAT much of a backstory for Erik in the first place. And the parts that cover the same period as Leroux and the musical just read like a "lite' romance novel.
Revealing Erik's entire history is similar to revealing how a magic trick works. You're intensely curious at first but once you know all the secrets, the entire thing loses some of its appeal. I for one, don't mind knowing his background since I enjoy knowing how his personality was shaped and, for me, makes me appreciate him more as a fully-fleshed out character.

And the Leroux section definitely pushed the romance factor, as she admitted to being influenced by the ALW musical. I thought it struck a pretty good balance - at least Erik didn't devolve into pure emo boy.

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Re: Phantom, by Susan Kay

Post  MlleMusique on Tue Oct 20, 2009 5:28 am

I've read this book once in full and multiple snippets from time to time...I too borrowed my copy from a friend (covered in dust and evidently not read much) and never gave it back... Embarassed

I like it, but similarly to Paula it didn't really capture me. I agree that having Erik's entire history explained in detail definitely does erase some of his mystery and allure. But there were some really good quotes in there and the cover art (paperback version) always intrigued me.

As a side note, I volunteered in the local Salvation Army shop for a while and amongst the books was a copy of Phantom. I remember every shift I'd go and it'd still be there, and I'd think "someone buy it! It's a pretty damn good book!" Smile

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Re: Phantom, by Susan Kay

Post  phantomgirl110 on Tue Oct 20, 2009 5:45 am

I can't believe I still haven't read this book. I've wanted to for years, if for no other reason than to familiarize myself with it (and get that autograph that Raphael promised me...what, four years ago?). I don't expect to fall in love completely and accept it as canon as some people have, but I'm still quite interested.

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Re: Phantom, by Susan Kay

Post  Raphael on Fri Oct 23, 2009 4:43 am

So what are you waiting for, Mandy? Very Happy

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Re: Phantom, by Susan Kay

Post  Scorp on Wed Oct 28, 2009 2:30 pm

Unless you count Terry Pratchett's Maskerade, this is the only non-Leroux fully-fledged Phantom-based novel that I've bothered to read. I may be alone here but I just. do. not. get. fan fic. (Sorry to the many fan-fic-writers who are probably here...but you have enough fans anyway so I'm sure I don't need to be one). Literally I can't stand it to the point where I lament the fact that all sorts of talentless writers, some of whom are only around 15 years old (not referring to anyone here), actually pay to get their Mills-&-Boon-type rubbish published. What a waste of trees and Amazon server space.

Susan Kay's Phantom, however, is an extremely well-written book that is beautifully told and excellently researched. I particularly liked the section in Persia. My main criticism though was that I felt the book went downhill in the last section once Kay's story meets Leroux's, because the chronology of events isn't consistent at all and a lot of it felt very rushed to me. I didn't like the ending (with the secret revealed by an older Raoul) either...that was too fan-ficcy.

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Re: Phantom, by Susan Kay

Post  Paula74 on Wed Oct 28, 2009 2:58 pm

Scorp wrote:Literally I can't stand it to the point where I lament the fact that all sorts of talentless writers, some of whom are only around 15 years old (not referring to anyone here), actually pay to get their Mills-&-Boon-type rubbish published. What a waste of trees and Amazon server space.

I was ranting about this sort of thing to a friend recently. Only my rant was mostly about adult women who use fan fics - mostly movie-based - as an outlet for their romantic/sexual fantasies/frustrations and as a way to have their egos stroked by their friends who will gush over every steamy or angsty scene and actually pay hundreds or thousands to have their "literary epic" published.

Not that I don't personally enjoy a little good fan fic here and there, but paying to publish it...well, that's why they're called VANITY presses.

That said, I've read very little published Phantom fiction aside from Kay and POM. I read "Journey of The Masque" or whatever that awful voodoo one was called, but only because it was available on-line for free and I was bored.

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I Quite Like This Book

Post  KarriesAngel on Fri Nov 27, 2009 8:48 pm

I don't know why but I quite like Susan Kay's Phantom, I think that her writing style is quite good and descriptive she puts a lot of atmosphere into her book. I've had a copy for quite a while but only got around to reading it a few months ago because nothing else was happening much. But for 'fanfic' I quite enjoyed it.

Best wishes.

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Re: Phantom, by Susan Kay

Post  Josephine on Thu Dec 31, 2009 7:49 am

Can one of you knowledgable Phantom people tell me if there's more than one German translation of the book? The one I know is so heavily abridged that I stopped reading after the first part and couldn't even recommend it to my mum. Do you know if there's a complete translation, or will I have to do one myself?

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Re: Phantom, by Susan Kay

Post  Deathshead1 on Wed Jun 02, 2010 4:21 pm

I read bits and pieces of it at a retirement home my grandparents live at, i thought it was pretty good, but i still like the Leroux novel better.

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Re: Phantom, by Susan Kay

Post  ML6 on Wed Jun 02, 2010 8:36 pm

I remember a couple years ago, when I was hitting up all the (at the time) horrid pieces of work on Amazon.com. I hit up a review for this book, too. I didn't like it at all, and I only read the book once from beginning to end. So, I wrote a lengthy review on why I didn't like it, and why I didn't like how Christine was portrayed - and boy, a month later, my review vanished from Amazon.com. Why? I can't tell you, but the fact that fifty five (or more) rated it not helpful would give it a reason?

Anyway, I really don't like this book. It's Webber influenced, that I can say. But I got so ANGRY at the end of the novel when Raoul had to put up with the kid (who acted TOO MUCH like Erik) and the damn cat. Oh, if I was Raoul, I'd leave my zombie-eyed night of the living dead family and go find someone else who apparently cared about me. Everyone was against Raoul and it made me so angry. I think this was the turning point when I became a Raoul/Christine supporter.

I give her credit, because it IS well written. But it's horribly well written, if that makes any sense. Some of the scenes are ridiculous plot points, but they're well written that you can't believe she even bothered to write them in.

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Re: Phantom, by Susan Kay

Post  Klavirista on Fri Aug 06, 2010 6:43 pm

I thought that it would be interesting for somebody.
I haven't known that Susan Kay's Phantom was published in... Arabic (2008, soft cover)!
Here it is:



And Hungarian cover:




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Re: Phantom, by Susan Kay

Post  Alyssa on Wed Oct 06, 2010 2:59 pm

ML6 wrote:I give her credit, because it IS well written. But it's horribly well written, if that makes any sense. Some of the scenes are ridiculous plot points, but they're well written that you can't believe she even bothered to write them in.

I totally get you. In preparation for my 3rd viewing of the Webber Musical, I re-read Leroux and Kay's novels. It's been a long time since I've read it. My first time I borrowed it from my local library. I was so excited, and anxiously waited the 2 weeks for it to be returned. I immediately made it to the library and there it was! Oh rapture! Oh bliss!

Oh!

Wait.

What?

I believe I was about 16 when I first read it, and I was surprised could see errors in the story. For the most part, I'd say it's okay. I enjoyed it enough to when I saw a copy at a thrift store I purchased it and I continue to read it whenever I get the inclination. The parts I dislike most are Madeline and Christine's introspectives. Especially the "dear diary" like manner done in italics for Christine which always gives me a bit of a headache.

Kays interpretation however, of Erik's untapped and raw sex appeal, I admit shamefully, caught my attention this time and I find it one of the more redeeming aspects of the book. Once a phangirl, always a phangirl I suppose. (Although I admit freely that sexing it up with Erik is like probably sexing it up with a zombie extra from AMC's upcoming series "the Walking Dead" but with more stink.)

Although I find the novel enjoyable to read I have to agree it's still only phanphiction.

But what are Disney movies, but expensive and animated fanfiction?

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Re: Phantom, by Susan Kay

Post  Amyable_Nature on Thu Feb 24, 2011 4:27 pm

ML6 wrote:

Anyway, I really don't like this book. It's Webber influenced, that I can say. But I got so ANGRY at the end of the novel when Raoul had to put up with the kid (who acted TOO MUCH like Erik) and the damn cat. Oh, if I was Raoul, I'd leave my zombie-eyed night of the living dead family and go find someone else who apparently cared about me. Everyone was against Raoul and it made me so angry. I think this was the turning point when I became a Raoul/Christine supporter.


That is my biggest complaint. This would be considered a SPOILER I guess, but was it necessary to punish Raoul in this book? Poor thing. Christine freaking cheats on him and gets herself knocked up with Erik's son but Raoul raises the child anyway and continues to take care of Christine. Marrying her at all shows great devotion to her in spite of all else considering he's nobility and she's...not. But in the end, I have to jump to the conclusion that Christine married Raoul because it was convenient and comfortable. At least in the Webber musical, you still believe Christine loves the poor chap!

But the biggest bitch slap of all...Raoul never gets to have sex with Christine ever again. Talk about pouring salt on the wounds. In giving birth to Erik's son, she is wrecked and getting pregnant again could kill her. So Raoul doesn't get to have his own children, he doesn't even get to do his own wife! So in a twisted way, Christine is always going to remain Erik's in body and soul. That really bothers me. But it means that Raoul is a damn saint. A rich young nobleman marries a singer, she cheats on him and has another man's baby that he is expected to raise and nurture as his own, he never gets to have his own children, he can never get down with his own wife ever again (if he ever did and now that's a chilling thought). That's just cruel. And on top of it, people (phanbrats, to be fair) continue to write him off as a selfish fop.

It bears repeating that I still love Susan Kay's book. I guess no version will ever be perfect and while her book falls flat pretty much the moment Christine arrives, I appreciate everything before that point in the story. I'm one of those people who would always prefer to know as much about Erik as possible and I'm really satisfied with Kay's interpretation of his life. But abusing Raoul in such a way really annoys me.

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Re: Phantom, by Susan Kay

Post  LadyCDaae on Thu Feb 24, 2011 5:12 pm

Amyable_Nature wrote:

That is my biggest complaint. This would be considered a SPOILER I guess, but was it necessary to punish Raoul in this book? Poor thing. Christine freaking cheats on him and gets herself knocked up with Erik's son but Raoul raises the child anyway and continues to take care of Christine. Marrying her at all shows great devotion to her in spite of all else considering he's nobility and she's...not. But in the end, I have to jump to the conclusion that Christine married Raoul because it was convenient and comfortable. At least in the Webber musical, you still believe Christine loves the poor chap!


I never got the impression that Christine was cheating on Raoul. By going back to Erik the last time, she had every reason to believe her engagement with Raoul was off. And she does "marry" Erik in a fashion (apparently in the Catholic Church, you can wed without an priest present if one or both of the parties are in imminent danger of dying, so it counts). In marrying Raoul after Erik's death, she's not cheating on either of them any more than any other widow who remarries (albeit with a much shorter period of mourning)--unlike in, say, LND, where she bounces between the two seemingly at random. And I believe that in both cases, she does marry for love. Just my personal reaction, of course. (Actually, Kay was where I really started to like Raoul as a character, because of how he's devoted to Christine--even to the point of putting aside his very justifiable hatred of Erik.)

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Re: Phantom, by Susan Kay

Post  Amyable_Nature on Thu Feb 24, 2011 10:29 pm

I suppose that's fair, but I still give a stink eye to the whole situation after that. Technically cheating or not, Raoul continues to care for Christine and love her for the rest of her life and I think it's abundantly clear that he's playing second fiddle. It shows just how much he loves her. He can't have sex with her, she had another man's baby and he's still devoted to her. Even though the situation is unfair to him, at least it shows the depth of his love. But it's a miserable end for all three, when you think of it.

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Re: Phantom, by Susan Kay

Post  ML6 on Thu Feb 24, 2011 11:22 pm

I had no idea my comment would create so much turmoil.

Let me go over everything:

I think the thing that bounces around in my head is 'why run away with Raoul at all'? Save him all this grief and anger, stay with Erik (as in, never marry again). As we saw, Christine became a mopey-emo-bitch, not even giving a damn about Raoul. Just her son and the Cat.

I just feel to have two people you're stringing along at the same time a bit too much. If she loves Erik, then why doesn't she tell Raoul? How in the world does she just all of a sudden 'love Raoul'? I assume the love for him was already there. But if she truly wanted to be with Erik, and be only Erik's, then she should have raised the child on her own.

I just think that Raoul was treated unfairly. Amyable_Nature summarized my feelings about that portion of the book pretty spot on.

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Re: Phantom, by Susan Kay

Post  Amyable_Nature on Fri Feb 25, 2011 12:04 am

I don't think you created turmoil. I'm enjoying the discussion and I hope no one feels put out. This is awesome. Everyone I know offline is tired of hearing it...and they love Phantom. Laughing

"Christine became a mopey-emo-bitch" I literally LOLed. I don't know what Christine would have done on her own and with a child. Raoul still wanted to take care of her and it seems like the wise thing for her to accept that, at least for her child's sake. She knew Erik was dying and I think that presented an opportunity to have one man and then the other. Kind of convenient. And you're right, I don't know how you justify having two men at once. But maybe she did think Raoul was about to leave her anyway. I'm re-reading the book now but I'm only on the Italy section so I'm hardly there yet.

But I won't judge Christine too harshly. Kay's Erik seems really appealing to just about all the female characters, in one way or another. But I'm looking at it from Raoul's POV and even though he loves her, it's heartbreaking that he's left with the ghost of Christine even before she dies. She's like a zombie and I got the impression that there was a touch of coldness about her. His wife is in love with another man, his son isn't even his and even his cat hates him. Sadness.

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Re: Phantom, by Susan Kay

Post  ML6 on Fri Feb 25, 2011 2:05 am

I find Kay's Christine to be pretty dumb. There is that one scene where she freaks out over a spider. Does she have arachnophobia?

Oh, lets not forget the portion of the book where she masturbates with a pillow. Weird.

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Re: Phantom, by Susan Kay

Post  Amyable_Nature on Fri Feb 25, 2011 2:37 am

The spider thing is something I can sympathize with. If I saw a spider the size of my fist crawling on my pillow, I'd freak out worse than Christine did.

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Re: Phantom, by Susan Kay

Post  Alyssa on Fri Feb 25, 2011 9:46 pm

ML6 wrote:I find Kay's Christine to be pretty dumb.

Oh, lets not forget the portion of the book where she masturbates with a pillow. Weird.

What, WHAT?!

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Re: Phantom, by Susan Kay

Post  ML6 on Sat Feb 26, 2011 1:03 am

Don't have the book on me, but find the chapter where Christine is in her room alone, and Erik just got angry with her. Erik starts playing Don Juan Triumphant and the next thing you know, the pillow is going down south.

Call me out if I'm wrong.

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Re: Phantom, by Susan Kay

Post  LadyCDaae on Sat Feb 26, 2011 4:22 am

I think the idea is she has one arm wrapped around the pillow, and the other hand is...going south, as you so aptly put it. I don't have the book immediately on hand either, but that was the impression I got from the scene.

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Re: Phantom, by Susan Kay

Post  ML6 on Sat Feb 26, 2011 4:55 am

Okay, I thought she was riding it and experimenting as well.

But, hey, only read the book once. But that I read a couple times to try to understand wtf I just read.

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Re: Phantom, by Susan Kay

Post  Alyssa on Sun Feb 27, 2011 2:51 am

Dear Susan Kay,

please stop over sexing everybody.

k thanks

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Re: Phantom, by Susan Kay

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