The timeline issue

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Re: The timeline issue

Post  Scorp on Tue Aug 10, 2010 10:12 am

MajesticPhantom wrote:Just mentioning that while the US brochures do not indicate dates, our Playbills (free programs) do all across the country, and indicate 1881/1911.

We'll see how long that lasts once (if?) LND makes its way across the pond. Rolling Eyes

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Re: The timeline issue

Post  operafantomet on Sun Sep 30, 2012 7:42 pm

In a facsimile of a sheet of paper from the Sydmonton version, it's revealed they there intended to set the main story to 1856....! The paper is printed in one of the first pages of the RAH brochure.

This does explain why Raoul is shown as fairly old in the auction. But somewhere along the road they decided they wanted the proper Palais Garnier settings, and the opera didn't open until 1875, so the date was pushed. Eventually they had to push the date of the auction as well.

The original Sydmonton date might explain why the timeline(s) of Phantom has been a mess ever since. On the other hand, ALW had a chance to correct at least the timeline issue in LND, and he messed it up royally there...

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Re: The timeline issue

Post  Raphael on Sun Sep 30, 2012 8:09 pm

Well, it's not so much of a "line" as it is a big ball of wibbly wobbly... timey wimey... stuff.

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Re: The timeline issue

Post  London-Phan on Sun Sep 30, 2012 8:28 pm

In the original cast programme the dates are 1905 and 1861, then in the next programme with Michael Crawford and Claire Moore it's 1911 and 1881. So it wasn't long before they changed the dates. And it the current programme it's 1911 and instead of a date it says Paris, late 19th century. I'm not sure when they started doing that but I presume it's to make LND fit the timeline?

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Re: The timeline issue

Post  Scorp on Sun Sep 30, 2012 10:59 pm

London-Phan wrote:In the original cast programme the dates are 1905 and 1861, then in the next programme with Michael Crawford and Claire Moore it's 1911 and 1881. So it wasn't long before they changed the dates. And it the current programme it's 1911 and instead of a date it says Paris, late 19th century. I'm not sure when they started doing that but I presume it's to make LND fit the timeline?

Yes they started doing that when LND rolled into town. Now that it has left us and the stench is fading away, one hopes they will change it back to 1881...

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Re: The timeline issue

Post  MlleMusique on Sun Feb 24, 2013 8:10 am

Hello people! Anyone remember me? It HAS been a while...!

Having recently rekindled my obsession with Phantom, I've been dying to decide on a date for my canon of the story, and reading back through Anea's old posts, I'm wondering if 1876 is not a possible solution to everyone's problems (as far as musical canon)?

If we just ignore the date of the auction for a moment, 1876 fits neatly with everything:

~the Palais Garnier, completed in 1871 and opened in 1875
~the Franco-Prussian war, ended in 1871
~the costume design, which Anea very kindly pinpointed to fall between 1873-76
~Daddy DaaƩ's death, 1870--meaning Christine has been grieving him for 6yrs, about the same time the Phantom has then been coaching her vocally. I took singing lessons for that length of time, which was enough to take my voice from choir rat to independently classically trained lyric soprano. Even without Christine's inherent ethereal qualities Wink

Notwithstanding the auction (because, frankly, I've never viewed that as an absolutely essential scene, and does it really make much difference if that date is pushed further forward than 1911 to fit with Raoul's degeneration), can anyone offer any protestations as to why 1876 cannot work as a plausible year for the main story?

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Re: The timeline issue

Post  operafantomet on Sun Sep 29, 2013 8:38 am

MlleMusique wrote:Hello people! Anyone remember me? It HAS been a while...!

Having recently rekindled my obsession with Phantom, I've been dying to decide on a date for my canon of the story, and reading back through Anea's old posts, I'm wondering if 1876 is not a possible solution to everyone's problems (as far as musical canon)?

If we just ignore the date of the auction for a moment, 1876 fits neatly with everything:

~the Palais Garnier, completed in 1871 and opened in 1875
~the Franco-Prussian war, ended in 1871
~the costume design, which Anea very kindly pinpointed to fall between 1873-76
~Daddy DaaƩ's death, 1870--meaning Christine has been grieving him for 6yrs, about the same time the Phantom has then been coaching her vocally. I took singing lessons for that length of time, which was enough to take my voice from choir rat to independently classically trained lyric soprano. Even without Christine's inherent ethereal qualities Wink

Notwithstanding the auction (because, frankly, I've never viewed that as an absolutely essential scene, and does it really make much difference if that date is pushed further forward than 1911 to fit with Raoul's degeneration), can anyone offer any protestations as to why 1876 cannot work as a plausible year for the main story?
Bringing this back... 1876 fits the bill in very many aspects. One thing speaking against it, though, is that Carlotta is introduced as "Our leading soprano for five seasons now". A season is usually half a year, which means she's been the leading lady in Palais Garnier for 2,5 years. Since the opera opened in January 1875, then the earliest possible date would be 1877.

(there are variables here - they could mean she was the leading lady of that particular opera company, not necessarily performing in the Palais Garnier all the time, or they could be talking about shorter seasons. So it's not set in stone. Just adding more to the timeline issue...)

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Re: The timeline issue

Post  MlleMusique on Sun Sep 29, 2013 9:03 pm

they could mean she was the leading lady of that particular opera company, not necessarily performing in the Palais Garnier all the time
Anea, first off thank you so much for replying!

I'd be very inclined to think the Managers' reference to Carlotta being the lead for five seasons was with the Paris Opera company specifically--which had been housed in 12 venues before the Palais Garnier from its establishment in 1671, the most recent being the Salle Ventadour for almost all of 1874 whilst the Palais Garnier was being constructed. Meaning it was the Palais Garnier that was the 'new' thing in 1875, not the Opera company itself.

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Re: The timeline issue

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