Phantom costumes - real and replicas 1

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Re: Phantom costumes - real and replicas 1

Post  Raphael on Sat Oct 31, 2009 12:51 am

Request: Anyone have any up-close photos of the Hannibal makeup for Carlotta and Piangi? The ones I have all look like a variation of green, red and yellow around the eyes. Just want to verify that for an illustration I'm working on. Thanks!

R.

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Re: Phantom costumes - real and replicas 1

Post  operafantomet on Sat Oct 31, 2009 1:13 am

Raphael wrote:Request: Anyone have any up-close photos of the Hannibal makeup for Carlotta and Piangi? The ones I have all look like a variation of green, red and yellow around the eyes. Just want to verify that for an illustration I'm working on. Thanks!

R.

I've sent you an email. Very Happy But shades of green and yellow with a dash red/orange sounds right for all productions.

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Re: Phantom costumes - real and replicas 1

Post  phantomgirl110 on Sat Oct 31, 2009 1:28 am

Probably nothing that you don't already have, but...



1) Kim Stengel, US tour
2) Kimilee Bryant, US tour/Broadway
3) Kimilee Bryant, US tour/Broadway
4) Kimilee Bryant, US tour/Broadway
5) Lorraine Goodman, Hamburg
6) Unknown - I had it saved as "Serrano Hanni"; a name?

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Re: Phantom costumes - real and replicas 1

Post  operafantomet on Sat Oct 31, 2009 7:05 am

phantomgirl110 wrote:Probably nothing that you don't already have, but...


6) Unknown - I had it saved as "Serrano Hanni"; a name?
Carlotta is definitely Vera Borisova (Hamburg). Piangi actually looks like Marcello Ronchietto, but maybe I'm wrong and he's Serrano.

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Re: Phantom costumes - real and replicas 1

Post  Rebecca on Thu Nov 05, 2009 2:49 pm

Rebecca wrote:I'd like to try making a Phantom costume. Actually, I have a blue dress that's made in a fairly Victorian style, and I've thought of just trying to remake that into the Wishing Dress. Hoping maybe that since I'd just be attempting to modify something I already have it would make it slightly easier? ::fingers crossed:: Of course, I haven't tried to sew anything more challenging than a button in years, so I think it will be a pretty eye opening experience for me!

Yeah... after some consideration (read - reality check from Jeff) I decided maybe the Blue Dress would be biting off more than I can chew the first time out. LOL! So I'm going with the Slave Girl dress from Hannibal instead. Maybe a bit more realistic as a first project... and I may even get it done before next fall! ::Fingers still crossed::

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Re: Phantom costumes - real and replicas 1

Post  Guest on Thu Nov 05, 2009 3:55 pm

Rebecca wrote:
Rebecca wrote:I'd like to try making a Phantom costume. Actually, I have a blue dress that's made in a fairly Victorian style, and I've thought of just trying to remake that into the Wishing Dress. Hoping maybe that since I'd just be attempting to modify something I already have it would make it slightly easier? ::fingers crossed:: Of course, I haven't tried to sew anything more challenging than a button in years, so I think it will be a pretty eye opening experience for me!

Yeah... after some consideration (read - reality check from Jeff) I decided maybe the Blue Dress would be biting off more than I can chew the first time out. LOL! So I'm going with the Slave Girl dress from Hannibal instead. Maybe a bit more realistic as a first project... and I may even get it done before next fall! ::Fingers still crossed::

Ummmm, my first sewing project was Red Death.... You can do anything you set your mind to. Smile

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Re: Phantom costumes - real and replicas 1

Post  Rebecca on Thu Nov 05, 2009 4:48 pm

phantomfett wrote:
Rebecca wrote:
Rebecca wrote:I'd like to try making a Phantom costume. Actually, I have a blue dress that's made in a fairly Victorian style, and I've thought of just trying to remake that into the Wishing Dress. Hoping maybe that since I'd just be attempting to modify something I already have it would make it slightly easier? ::fingers crossed:: Of course, I haven't tried to sew anything more challenging than a button in years, so I think it will be a pretty eye opening experience for me!

Yeah... after some consideration (read - reality check from Jeff) I decided maybe the Blue Dress would be biting off more than I can chew the first time out. LOL! So I'm going with the Slave Girl dress from Hannibal instead. Maybe a bit more realistic as a first project... and I may even get it done before next fall! ::Fingers still crossed::

Ummmm, my first sewing project was Red Death.... You can do anything you set your mind to. Smile

Really?? That was your very first one??? Awesome!!! For some reason I had it in my mind that you'd made other things before, but apparently that's another example of my memory going bad! LOL! Hmmm, that is encouraging to hear. Your costume is amazing!

I guess I should just decide which one I really want to try. I think Jeff has put in his vote for the Hannibal costume... but that could just be him.... LOL! We'll see. I'm picking up the sewing machine I'm borrowing from my sister in 3 weeks (going to the US for Thanksgiving), and hopefully can fit in some fabric shopping at the time as well. I'm sure I'll check back here to complain ask for advice as the project progresses. Everyone here has a LOT more experience than I do!

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Re: Phantom costumes - real and replicas 1

Post  Loettchen on Thu Nov 05, 2009 5:26 pm

Rebecca wrote:Yeah... after some consideration (read - reality check from Jeff) I decided maybe the Blue Dress would be biting off more than I can chew the first time out. LOL! So I'm going with the Slave Girl dress from Hannibal instead. Maybe a bit more realistic as a first project... and I may even get it done before next fall! ::Fingers still crossed::

Rebecca, I went through exactly the same thing the first time! I wanted the Blue Dress, but decided it would be too hard as a first project and opted for Slave Girl instead. But then my mom said, "Don't waste time and money. Make the one you want." So I switched back and made the Blue Dress. Of course, I had help from my mom, so there's that too. But I'm sure everyone here will help you with whichever one you choose. I do think Slave Girl would be a bit easier and cheaper, but I think they would both be nice choices.

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Re: Phantom costumes - real and replicas 1

Post  MasqPhan on Thu Nov 05, 2009 6:35 pm

If your original plan for the Wishing Dress was to alter a piece you already had, perhaps that might be simpler than a costume from scratch. What about posting a photo of the dress you have and see if anyone here might have suggestions on whether it looks possible or if it's better to go to another costume.

I'm also working on a Hannibal costume and like Phantomfett, it's my first costume project. The last thing I sewed was a pair of fleece gym shorts for home-economics class some 18 years ago. So, if you really, really want to make a costume and put your mind to it, you might be very surprised with the results(in a good way). The sewing machine I had access to is older than me and doesn't do well with sewing trims/velvet etc, so I ended up doing the outfit by hand. I know in my case it involved LOTS of trial and error but I learned as I went and figured out where I could cheat.

So don't be overwhelmed at the thought of tackling a costume. Smile

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Re: Phantom costumes - real and replicas 1

Post  Rebecca on Thu Nov 05, 2009 8:00 pm

Thank you so much for all of the positive encouragement guys! I really appreciate it very much! I do have a photo of the blue dress I have somewhere, though it's a few years old and a bit fuzzy. I'll see if I can find it to post...

If I decide to make the slave girl costume instead, to be honest that would probably be made "over top" of a very nice corset I already own, so it would not be completely from scratch either. It's about the right length for the bodice, but totally the wrong colour so I'd thought I might just sew the properly coloured panels on top of what was there and add decoration. It's lovely, but I never have any occasion for which it would be appropriate!

I really appreciate your feedback - thanks! Very Happy

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Re: Phantom costumes - real and replicas 1

Post  operafantomet on Sat Nov 07, 2009 10:49 am

Rebecca wrote:If I decide to make the slave girl costume instead, to be honest that would probably be made "over top" of a very nice corset I already own, so it would not be completely from scratch either. It's about the right length for the bodice, but totally the wrong colour so I'd thought I might just sew the properly coloured panels on top of what was there and add decoration. It's lovely, but I never have any occasion for which it would be appropriate!

I really appreciate your feedback - thanks! Very Happy
That sounds like a smart idea! And you know what "the real deal" looks and feels like (if you're heading for an European styled version, anyway). I think that's an excellent starting point.

Thanks to your lovely husband (which, BTW, looks smashing in the slavegirl costume!), I now have a full-shot of the Canadian version of this costume. I've been looking for that for AGES, and jumped of joy when I saw his photo. He allowed me to add it to the slavegirl costume gallery, which might come in handy if you search for any picture references:

http://aneafiles.webs.com/potocostumes/slavegirl.html

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Re: Phantom costumes - real and replicas 1

Post  Rebecca on Sat Nov 07, 2009 5:07 pm

operafantomet wrote:
That sounds like a smart idea! And you know what "the real deal" looks and feels like (if you're heading for an European styled version, anyway). I think that's an excellent starting point.

Thanks to your lovely husband (which, BTW, looks smashing in the slavegirl costume!), I now have a full-shot of the Canadian version of this costume. I've been looking for that for AGES, and jumped of joy when I saw his photo. He allowed me to add it to the slavegirl costume gallery, which might come in handy if you search for any picture references:

http://aneafiles.webs.com/potocostumes/slavegirl.html

Thank you so much for posting your link! I'd definitely planned to check out your site, as I know you have lots of good info about costuming Very Happy All those photos are perfect! I think I will probably try to stay closer to the UK version, as I'm more familiar with it and really think it's lovely. I'm not a huge fan of the US versions at the moment - but that's just my opinion!

And yes, Jeff makes a lovely slave, er... person... Wink

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Re: Phantom costumes - real and replicas 1

Post  Guest on Sun Nov 08, 2009 1:55 am

Rebecca,

If you need more pics of the London one, let me know. Smile

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Re: Phantom costumes - real and replicas 1

Post  Rebecca on Sun Nov 08, 2009 7:47 am

phantomfett wrote:Rebecca,

If you need more pics of the London one, let me know. Smile

Thank you! I have a bunch saved on our laptop, so I hope I'm prepared... I certainly appreciate the offer and will be in touch if I start freaking out and banging my head against the sewing machine in frustration... Laughing

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Re: Phantom costumes - real and replicas 1

Post  operafantomet on Fri Nov 13, 2009 7:50 pm

Not really a costume question....

But it seems International Festival of Scenic Arts did a tribute to Maria Bjørnson in London in September:

Part of the day will be devoted to Maria Bjornson, stage and costume designer for theatre and opera. Her career will be discussed by her friend and authority on her work, the impresario and designer Adam Pollock. Widely considered by critics to be one of the most important contemporary stage and costume designers at an international level before her untimely demise in December 2002, at the age of 53. She is best known for her iconic sets and costumes for Andrew Lloyd Webber's musical The Phantom of the Opera. The production has been running for over 20 years and has been seen by over 100 million people in 21 countries worldwide.

http://www.thescenographer.com/liveevents2.php

Can someone get me that magazine/cover, pleeeeease? Don't know which production it's from (looks like the Regency era), but it looks stunning!


Last edited by operafantomet on Fri Nov 13, 2009 8:10 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Phantom costumes - real and replicas 1

Post  Scorp on Fri Nov 13, 2009 8:07 pm

operafantomet wrote:Not really a costume question....

But it seems International Festival of Scenic Arts did a tribute to Maria Bjørnson in London in September:

Part of the day will be devoted to Maria Bjornson, stage and costume designer for theatre and opera. Her career will be discussed by her friend and authority on her work, the impresario and designer Adam Pollock. Widely considered by critics to be one of the most important contemporary stage and costume designers at an international level before her untimely demise in December 2002, at the age of 53. She is best known for her iconic sets and costumes for Andrew Lloyd Webber's musical The Phantom of the Opera. The production has been running for over 20 years and has been seen by over 100 million people in 21 countries worldwide.

http://www.thescenographer.com/liveevents2.php

Can someone get me that magazine/cover, pleeeeease? Don't know which production it's from, but it looks stunning!

Ooh, well spotted! If the magazine has lots of Phantom stuff in the issue dedicated to Björnson I'd be interested in getting a copy too. I wonder where to get it from? Seems fairly specialised so I'm not sure where would sell it...

Interesting Maria was friends with Bill Dudley. I wonder what she would have made of his designs for The Woman in White, which I didn't really care for...seemed to be a case of experimenting with new media for the sake of it without realising that the technology wasn't developed enough nor was it appropriate for the production...

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Re: Phantom costumes - real and replicas 1

Post  operafantomet on Fri Nov 13, 2009 8:31 pm

I've emailed them (=V&A), hopefully they'll know where to get it. Maybe they even sell it at the museum - they have devoted quite a bit of work to historical and modern costumes lately. I know it's a scenography magazine, but it's Bjørnson's costume design they've put on the cover, so...

Oh, and emailing V&A is funky. Took me some time to discover that "vanda" is not a lady working there, it "V and A"... Laughing

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Re: Phantom costumes - real and replicas 1

Post  operafantomet on Wed Nov 18, 2009 11:03 pm

One of the POTO costume designs I've never seen and don't have a clue on how might look, is Carlotta's Masquerade costume. There's also been various ideas and speculations on what the heck the costume is supposed to illude. Well, I got an answer to the latter. On the design sketch there's allegedly written:

"'Based on / Lola Montez / 'Spider Dance' / Tour'"

And this is amusing! Lola Montez (Eliza Rosanna Gilbert) is a colourful figure in history. She worked most of her adult life as a dancer, doing some fine roles at Her Majesty's Theatre (!), as well as touring the world. She also had affaires with some very prominent males - Franz Liszt and Ludwig I of Bavaria. The latter made her a countess.

She was most famous for her "Spider dance" - an erotically charged dance which concept was that she pretended to find tarantellas in her clothes and had to shred most of her garbs... Her dancing style was (I've been told) a mixture of classical ballet and flamenco, and despite her Irish background she was known as a "Spanish dancer" when she toured. I haven't succeeded in finding any pictures of Lola Montez doing her "Spider dance", but at least I now understand the multiple spider webs and stuff Carlotta's costume is crammed with... Amusing!

Another note on the design sketch: 'Spider skirt / 'frame' of cobwebbs / metal + crin / spokes must / be light.'

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Re: Phantom costumes - real and replicas 1

Post  operafantomet on Sat Nov 21, 2009 12:51 am

An interesting article about the Argentine costumes here:
http://www.swissinfo.ch/spa/portada/La_mujer_detras_de_El_Fantasma.html?siteSect=108&sid=10467951&cKey=1237569394000&ty=st

(get Google to translate it)

Some interesting info there:
Most costumes are sprayed with vodka (sic!) on the inside, cause it apparently kills bacterias and prevent an unpleasant odeur. It's a trick the costume lady picked up from the Bolshoi ballet in Russia.

Christine's blue Wishing gown costs app. $9000 / €6000 new.

If a production was to make all new costumes, it would cost app. $ 1.250.000

They usually replace lining when the costumes move from one production to another (if I understood it correctly). Also, most costumes has removable and washable paddings in the arm hole/opening, and shirts are washed after every performance.

Piangi's Hannibal cloak weights app. 22 kilos.

The costumes for Christine, the Phantom, Raoul and Carlotta are made using the same fabrics as in London (no wonder, since the costumes was MADE in London, in the same workshops doing the London costumes... ) Wink

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Re: Phantom costumes - real and replicas 1

Post  operafantomet on Sun Nov 22, 2009 8:25 am

History repeating itself... Crying or Very sad

In autumn 2003, when Phantom started up again in Copenhagen, I remembered my desire of writing a long letter to Maria Bjørnson regarding her design for Phantom and regarding her famous Norwegian ancestor Bjørnstjerne Bjørnson. But when I opened the (then) new Danish brochure I read she had died in December 2002. What a loss. Just.... what a loss.

As some of you might know, I'm not a fan of the Hungarian Phantom costumes. That is, I'm not a fan of what's used on stage. The actual sketches, however, are absolutely gorgeous. Eerie, creative, nice pen, a hint of Bjørnson. So I went to the Hungarian site just now to find the name of the designer and possibly and email address. I found her name:

NELLY VÁGÓ
COSTUME DESIGNER

Budapest, 5. September 1937 - Budapest, 21.December 2006

Neutral

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Re: Phantom costumes - real and replicas 1

Post  Christine's Shadow on Mon Nov 23, 2009 10:00 am

Poking through pictures and whatnot sort of pushed me to make another replica. I've never made a Phantom replica, but those who have me on facebook can see that I made a Wicked replica of the act 2 dress Elphaba wears. Anyway, I'm looking at starting early (just a bit) and wondering about Christine's Masquerade dress. Any suggestions on patterns for the top? or just in general? I'm sort of at a loss of where to start with a costume like that, and I'm quite timid to play with dye at all, but am willing to get my hands dirty trying it.

So... suggestions?

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Re: Phantom costumes - real and replicas 1

Post  operafantomet on Mon Nov 23, 2009 10:14 am

Suggestion on what NOT to do:

I used an 18th century corset pattern as basis (though I made mine from only three panels). This because corsets from this era has the fine, rounded tabs seen in Christine's costume. Problem is that the Masquerade bodice needs an hourglass silhouette, with the tabs flaring out over the skirt. You see it well here:

http://s638.photobucket.com/albums/uu101/potocostumes/starprincess/aussielanaenglish1.jpg

Problem is that 18th century corsets doesn't aim for the hourglass silhouette, they aim for cone shaped torsos. So my bodice seems a bit wide in the waist and narrow over the hips/skirt, compared to the stage costumes.

However, corset patterns can be useful - but choose a 19th century one! And skip the busk/opening in front. Maybe you could combine elements from these?
http://www.butterick.com/item/B4254.htm?tab=costumes&page=3

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Re: Phantom costumes - real and replicas 1

Post  operafantomet on Mon Nov 23, 2009 12:04 pm

Would it be possible for anyone to email/PM me contact info and/or name on the guy making replicas of the German masks?

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Re: Phantom costumes - real and replicas 1

Post  Phantom on a Budget on Mon Nov 23, 2009 2:02 pm

Done! Smile

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Re: Phantom costumes - real and replicas 1

Post  Christine's Shadow on Mon Nov 23, 2009 9:54 pm

operafantomet wrote:Suggestion on what NOT to do:

I used an 18th century corset pattern as basis (though I made mine from only three panels). This because corsets from this era has the fine, rounded tabs seen in Christine's costume. Problem is that the Masquerade bodice needs an hourglass silhouette, with the tabs flaring out over the skirt. You see it well here:

http://s638.photobucket.com/albums/uu101/potocostumes/starprincess/aussielanaenglish1.jpg

Problem is that 18th century corsets doesn't aim for the hourglass silhouette, they aim for cone shaped torsos. So my bodice seems a bit wide in the waist and narrow over the hips/skirt, compared to the stage costumes.

However, corset patterns can be useful - but choose a 19th century one! And skip the busk/opening in front. Maybe you could combine elements from these?
http://www.butterick.com/item/B4254.htm?tab=costumes&page=3

Thanks! I was sort of at a loss as to where to start, but the bodice/corset seems the perfect place. Thanks for the suggestions Smile

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Re: Phantom costumes - real and replicas 1

Post  Stephanie on Wed Nov 25, 2009 11:28 pm

I am seeking advice from you guys since so many of you sew and have a passion for Phantom costumes. Smile
Earlier in this thread I posted images of the dressing gown that I own (that I acquired from Jeff and Rebecca) that was used in the London production in the 1990’s.

I do not have a suitable place to display it and I am currently storing it in a museum quality archival box with acid-free paper.

The box came with paperwork that recommended that garments should be aired out every six months or so. I took it out today to do just that.

The material (especially in the bodice area) is very delicate. I inspected it and I noticed that some of the material (near the bust area underneath the lace) is starting to unravel. While I’m quite upset about this…I’m not surprised as this garment is rather old and super delicate. However, since this is a prized possession of mine, I want to do whatever I can to reinforce the material and to prevent it from getting any worse.

Images of this area of the gown are below. Do any of you have any recommendations on what I can do to prevent this from getting any worse? I definitely want to take it to a seamstress to be repaired. However, I am very reluctant to leave this with anyone as it is such an important piece to me! Hopefully I will be able to find someone great in my town that can help me with this. Before I do so, I just want to see if any of you have any advice.

The area that is unraveling is underneath this area:


There are two areas with the unraveling problem. This is one:


And this is the other:


Any tips that you can provide will be great appreciated!

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Re: Phantom costumes - real and replicas 1

Post  Phantomlove on Thu Nov 26, 2009 9:21 am

I would get in contact with someone who conserves (? is that the word in English?) clothes for museums. Hopefully they would have some idea how to mend it properly.

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Re: Phantom costumes - real and replicas 1

Post  operafantomet on Thu Nov 26, 2009 9:38 am

Hi there Stephanie

This looks like scary stuff. Alas the pictures are for small for me to see what's really going on. Is it only in the seams the fabric unravels, or is it the fabric itself that unravels? As soon as the weave of the fabric gives in there's not too much you can do about it, but if the fabric itself (other places than the seam) is solid, you should be safe.

Also, is if the bodice fabric or the ruffle?

I cannot advice you exactly what to do on this until I see some bigger pictures. But I think securing the areas bordering where the fabric unravels is a good idea, to prevent it from getting worse. I know it's probably a scary thing to do, but I think it's better than experiencing further damage. What conservators often do is to back up the fragile parts with a neutral, sturdy fabric. Again, if it's only around the seams, this will work well. If it's the whole fabric giving in, it's a most difficult job...

If you want professional people to see on it, seek out a professional opera company or someone with skills on fabrics and historical costumes. The former because they're used to the process of choosing the right fabrics for the right purpose, and for manipulating them into shape and look. You learn a lot about fibres this way, more than you average seamstress (although there are some skilled people there too!). Or maybe even a conservator, but unless they think it an interesting job it might cost $$$$. But they might get you valuable advice for free.

Read more here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Textile_preservation
(a nice book list there, which might be of interest to check out)

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Re: Phantom costumes - real and replicas 1

Post  Stephanie on Thu Nov 26, 2009 4:34 pm

Here are clickable thumbnails that will take you to larger images:

(The area that is unraveling is underneath this portion)



I was so sad when I noticed this yesterday! I put it in the box to protect it and seemed to come out in worse shape then when I put it in! But, I think it could have been much worse if it had been hanging the past few months with the pressure of the gown pulling it down.

The area that in unraveling is right up to to the seam underneath the ruffle. The good news is that this is hidden under the ruffles - so repairs (if a repair can be made) wouldn't be noticeable when looking at the front of the costume.

I like your ideas of seeking out a professional opera company, museum conservator or something similar. I think this is far to important and fragile to take to someone not used to conserving delicate pieces. I will start looking for someone when I get back home from lunch.

Thank you both for your recommendations! I really appreciate it!


Last edited by Stephanie on Fri Nov 27, 2009 6:21 pm; edited 1 time in total

Stephanie

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Re: Phantom costumes - real and replicas 1

Post  operafantomet on Fri Nov 27, 2009 5:16 pm

Stephanie wrote:
How offensive can a picture of the dressing gown be? Laughing Photobucket is weird sometimes... One time they censored a Tiziano painting I had uploaded. It was a naked Venus, after all...

I think (but do seek out the opinion of a professional) that a backup fabric would be the best solution for the dressing gown, especially since the area is hidden by the ruffles. I hope everything work out well!

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operafantomet

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Re: Phantom costumes - real and replicas 1

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