The Phantom's Mask

View previous topic View next topic Go down

The Phantom's Mask

Post  Bunvendor on Sat Nov 26, 2011 10:41 pm

Hey all!
I've set up this thread as a page to discuss the phantom's mask. I just felt that it needed its own page, as it is such an integral part of the show. On here you can discuss differences between productions, share pictures, post links to mask sales on ebay, etc... basically anything mask related.
OG

Bunvendor

Posts: 227
Join date: 2011-09-18
Location: England

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: The Phantom's Mask

Post  Abhorrent Face on Sat Dec 03, 2011 2:16 am

The half-mask as it was originally designed for Michael Crawford is structurally brilliant. The flow, the deceptively appealing curvature, the almost seamless fit, and the wire attachment method display some really great problem-solving skills. Combined with the prosthetic makeup, that design is timeless, in my opinion; it stands above many of its Phantom predecessors.

As for all the "post-Crawford" versions, I enjoy only a handful of those. Though none of them have the same symmetric intricacy that the original had, a few specific designs frame the face of their wearer VERY well, including but not limited to Peter Karrie.

I detest the sculpted eyebrow. It takes away an essential element of mystery and pathos from the ALW interpretation of Phantom and replaces it with "I'M ANGRY! GRRRR STAY AWAY."

No comment on the Red Death mask because I know very little about its construction and variations. However, I love the look of the original 1986 design most, from what I've seen so far. (I may be a little bit biased, though.)

Cheers,

AF

Abhorrent Face

Posts: 7
Join date: 2010-08-20

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: The Phantom's Mask

Post  phantomfett on Sat Dec 03, 2011 6:37 am

I'm a fan of the US masks from 1994 and earlier. It was when they started doing the sculpted eyebrow, but not the higher arched eyebrow. Notable masks from that style were Jacoby, Gray, Hilsabeck, and Norman.

I'm also a fan of the UK Red Death masks. They're made of fabric, lacquered then painted. The one I have has been fun to study. I can't wait to do a resculpt of my Fans Week mask. That one was a serious rush job, and I know I can do a much better job on it. Having an original to study has been great for seeing how they painted it up. I can't wait to apply what I've learned.

phantomfett

Posts: 328
Join date: 2009-09-22

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: The Phantom's Mask

Post  operafantomet on Sat Dec 03, 2011 9:54 am

phantomfett wrote:I'm a fan of the US masks from 1994 and earlier. It was when they started doing the sculpted eyebrow, but not the higher arched eyebrow. Notable masks from that style were Jacoby, Gray, Hilsabeck, and Norman.
I agree, those masks are super classy. They were also made in a time they were individually fitted for the actor. The current US masks, with its "angry eyebrow" and generic shape, is much less appealing. I can see why Hugh Panaro clings to his old mask as long as possible.

Was Gary Mauer the first to wear a generic mask? I have a faint memory of him wearing a mask way too big for over the forehead. It looked like he had borrowed a mask from someone else. Then again, so did the one Stephen John Davis wore in the West End, and it was sculpted for his face...

_________________
JOSEFINE TO THE PHANTOM:
You come off as... somewhat... rough...

operafantomet

Posts: 3542
Join date: 2009-09-21
Age: 34
Location: Norway

View user profile http://www.anea.no

Back to top Go down

Re: The Phantom's Mask

Post  SenorSwanky on Sat Dec 03, 2011 5:43 pm

I don't think Hugh is wearing the same mask even as the last time he was in the show. Definitely not when he was in it in '99.

SenorSwanky

Posts: 1604
Join date: 2009-09-25
Age: 29
Location: Raleigh, NC

View user profile http://www.facebook.com/dustiningalls

Back to top Go down

Re: The Phantom's Mask

Post  operafantomet on Sat Dec 03, 2011 6:00 pm

SenorSwanky wrote:I don't think Hugh is wearing the same mask even as the last time he was in the show. Definitely not when he was in it in '99.
I dunno, I think Paula can verify what he's wearing and not. But he showed me different masks in his dressing room, and the most worn one was the one he preferred. Definitely not the same as when he first played the Phantom, but his preferred mask wasn't a new one, I can tell you that much!

_________________
JOSEFINE TO THE PHANTOM:
You come off as... somewhat... rough...

operafantomet

Posts: 3542
Join date: 2009-09-21
Age: 34
Location: Norway

View user profile http://www.anea.no

Back to top Go down

Re: The Phantom's Mask

Post  Raphael on Sat Dec 03, 2011 6:26 pm

I've always been fond of the early masks that minimized the eyebrow. For me, the lack of a definite expression on the mask allowed ANY expression to project itself onto it based on the acting at that moment.

TAFKaR

_________________
Proud former member of TMCPMC
Keeper of Brianne Morgan's Masquerade hip-swish
www.phantoonsoftheopera.com

Raphael

Posts: 1015
Join date: 2009-09-22
Location: San Francisco Bay Area

View user profile http://www.phantoonsoftheopera.com

Back to top Go down

Re: The Phantom's Mask

Post  Bunvendor on Sat Dec 03, 2011 6:41 pm

operafantomet wrote:

Was Gary Mauer the first to wear a generic mask? I have a faint memory of him wearing a mask way too big for over the forehead. It looked like he had borrowed a mask from someone else. Then again, so did the one Stephen John Davis wore in the West End, and it was sculpted for his face...
I dont really know about this one, but maybe this will help:

these are Gary Mauer's kids wearing 2 of Gary's masks, both very different...
Also, SJD mask was probably one of the worst fitting masks I have ever seen. Are you sure it was made for him? Bob Saunders normally does a very good job fitting wise; in fact, his masks are my favourites.
OG


Bunvendor

Posts: 227
Join date: 2011-09-18
Location: England

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: The Phantom's Mask

Post  operafantomet on Sat Dec 03, 2011 7:07 pm

thephanfullerton wrote:
operafantomet wrote:

Was Gary Mauer the first to wear a generic mask? I have a faint memory of him wearing a mask way too big for over the forehead. It looked like he had borrowed a mask from someone else. Then again, so did the one Stephen John Davis wore in the West End, and it was sculpted for his face...
I dont really know about this one, but maybe this will help:

these are Gary Mauer's kids wearing 2 of Gary's masks, both very different...
Also, SJD mask was probably one of the worst fitting masks I have ever seen. Are you sure it was made for him? Bob Saunders normally does a very good job fitting wise; in fact, his masks are my favourites.
OG

Oh, that picture is adorable! I hope some of our US mask experts will kick in here and tell more about the masks and whether one is generic or not.

As for the SJD one, I can't tell for sure that the mask he wore on stage was the one who was fitted for him. But I have seen pictures of him getting A MASK fitted. It's quite a process, so that mask have to be somewhere. And it is most likely the one he wore when playing the Phantom. Unless, of course, the one originally made for him was broken or otherwise ruined. But yes, it's one of the poorest fitted masks in Phantom history. It's like the whole mask is sagging because it's too big for him. At first I thought the metal wire was a bit loose, but if it had been tighter the mask would have been way too big over the forehead. It also seems to cover too much of his "normal side" of the face. So in short, the mask in itself is nice, but it simply looks too big for him.


Understudy Phantom and main Buquet Stephen John Davis in the mask. He is fairly well documented, picture wise, because he got to perform the 10,000 show in London's West End. Because Scott Davies was sick, I think? The latter picture is with Michael Crawford, from the mentioned 10,000 show.


_________________
JOSEFINE TO THE PHANTOM:
You come off as... somewhat... rough...

operafantomet

Posts: 3542
Join date: 2009-09-21
Age: 34
Location: Norway

View user profile http://www.anea.no

Back to top Go down

Re: The Phantom's Mask

Post  Paula74 on Sat Dec 03, 2011 7:28 pm

I'm not sure what mask he's been wearing lately, but August of last year (when he was getting ready to return to the role), Hugh mentioned in an e-mail that he was on his way to a mask fitting.

This is probably the most recent mask photo I have....not counting photo shoots and such on the official Facebook page.

http://www.hugh-panaro.net/News.h30.jpg


Paula74

Posts: 601
Join date: 2009-09-22
Age: 40
Location: Monsieur Madeleine's office

View user profile http://www.hugh-panaro.net

Back to top Go down

Re: The Phantom's Mask

Post  Bunvendor on Sat Dec 03, 2011 7:30 pm

operafantomet wrote:
As for the SJD one, I can't tell for sure that the mask he wore on stage was the one who was fitted for him. But I have seen pictures of him getting A MASK fitted. It's quite a process, so that mask have to be somewhere. And it is most likely the one he wore when playing the Phantom. Unless, of course, the one originally made for him was broken or otherwise ruined. But yes, it's one of the poorest fitted masks in Phantom history. It's like the whole mask is sagging because it's too big for him. At first I thought the metal wire was a bit loose, but if it had been tighter the mask would have been way too big over the forehead. It also seems to cover too much of his "normal side" of the face. So in short, the mask in itself is nice, but it simply looks too big for him.


Understudy Phantom and main Buquet Stephen John Davis in the mask. He is fairly well documented, picture wise, because he got to perform the 10,000 show in London's West End. Because Scott Davies was sick, I think? The latter picture is with Michael Crawford, from the mentioned 10,000 show.

I'll have to look into that. I might ring applied arts again, see if they know.

Still, could be worse:

OG

Bunvendor

Posts: 227
Join date: 2011-09-18
Location: England

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: The Phantom's Mask

Post  Bunvendor on Sat Dec 03, 2011 7:34 pm

Paula74 wrote:I'm not sure what mask he's been wearing lately, but August of last year (when he was getting ready to return to the role), Hugh mentioned in an e-mail that he was on his way to a mask fitting.

This is probably the most recent mask photo I have....not counting photo shoots and such on the official Facebook page.

http://www.hugh-panaro.net/News.h30.jpg

That mask in the picture looks simpler than other masks that hugh has worn. I rather like it actually.
Out of interest, does anyone have any particular favourite mask pics?
OG

Bunvendor

Posts: 227
Join date: 2011-09-18
Location: England

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: The Phantom's Mask

Post  operafantomet on Sat Dec 03, 2011 11:13 pm

thephanfullerton wrote:Still, could be worse:

OG
Well, I wanna maintain that the Essen masks weren't poorly fitted, they were just so... hideous in style. Very graphic and modern looking. Opposite, the mask of Stephen John Davis is lovely in style, but poorly fitted. So two different issues, really.

But yeah. If I were to mention three really bad masks, the ones Ethan Freeman and Uwe Kröger wore in Essen would be on the top (or should that be bottom?) of that list...

Paula, thanks for that photo! It might correspond with what I saw on Broadway. I was there in mid August. The mask he showed me was seriously worn, or at least that's the impression I got. I would not be surprised if they were in the process of make him a new one, for closeup pictures...

_________________
JOSEFINE TO THE PHANTOM:
You come off as... somewhat... rough...

operafantomet

Posts: 3542
Join date: 2009-09-21
Age: 34
Location: Norway

View user profile http://www.anea.no

Back to top Go down

Re: The Phantom's Mask

Post  SenorSwanky on Sat Dec 03, 2011 11:41 pm

The mask that kid in the pic with Hugh is holding does look like the pre-one-size-fits-all style, the one he wore in his longest run from 2003 to 2005 or whatever. But it seems like the one he wore in his photo shoot for his current one looked different from the one in the older shots with Sandra Joseph, Julie Hanson, et al, and more like the ones worn by John Cudia and Howard McGillin and Tim Martin Gleason and others--the one-size-fits-all style, which is more scooped over the mouth and has a flatter eyebrow arch and less of a curve in the forehead, and generally just a less distinctive look and less like it fits the actor's face uniquely. That's the one that Mauer's kid on the right is wearing. The one on the left, I imagine, was the one Gary wore when he understudied on Broadway and maybe early in his run on the tour.

SenorSwanky

Posts: 1604
Join date: 2009-09-25
Age: 29
Location: Raleigh, NC

View user profile http://www.facebook.com/dustiningalls

Back to top Go down

Re: The Phantom's Mask

Post  operafantomet on Sat Dec 03, 2011 11:48 pm

Will be interesting to see the new pictures of Hugh Panaro. The Broadway FB page wrote they took new ones with Trista Moldovan just the other day. I'm guessing it includes his new mask.

Speaking of the Essen masks... Some of the newer Japanese ones kinda reminds me of the Essen ones in style. The first masks they had were closer to the Crawford style, with longer, curvier chin and forehead. The newer ones are shorter, rounder and more modern looking. I much prefer the masks they wore in the early 90s compared to the recent ones, though they aren't as Picasso as the Essen ones....


Large picture on left side: Masachika Ichimura and Ryoko Nomura, 1988
Large picture on lower right side: I wanna say "ditto". But I might be very wrong. It's an early picture, at least.
Small picture on upper right side: I have labeled it "1989".
Small picture on center top: Osamu Takai and ?, ca. 2010. New mask, and new styles of the costumes.

As most probably know, the very first Japanese mask was dark. Not all black, rather a metallic charcoal/silver finish. I have read several places that the reason for this is that white is reserved for death, sorrow and funerals in many Asian cultures, hereunder in Japan, and sticking that on the Phantom's face was considered too drastic. That makes sense... though I still cannot stop wondering why Christine was allowed to run around in white dresses in the Phantom's lair.

Does anyone here know more about that Japanese mask? Why it was changed, how long it was worn (very briefly, I've heard)? Do there exist more picture of it? I've scanned the one above from a Canadian brochure, ironically... But I'm guessing the original 1988 brochure should have more pictures of it?

_________________
JOSEFINE TO THE PHANTOM:
You come off as... somewhat... rough...

operafantomet

Posts: 3542
Join date: 2009-09-21
Age: 34
Location: Norway

View user profile http://www.anea.no

Back to top Go down

Re: The Phantom's Mask

Post  justin-from-barbados on Sun Dec 04, 2011 12:09 am

thephanfullerton wrote:
operafantomet wrote:

Was Gary Mauer the first to wear a generic mask? I have a faint memory of him wearing a mask way too big for over the forehead. It looked like he had borrowed a mask from someone else. Then again, so did the one Stephen John Davis wore in the West End, and it was sculpted for his face...
I dont really know about this one, but maybe this will help:

these are Gary Mauer's kids wearing 2 of Gary's masks, both very different...
Also, SJD mask was probably one of the worst fitting masks I have ever seen. Are you sure it was made for him? Bob Saunders normally does a very good job fitting wise; in fact, his masks are my favourites.
OG

I'll have a go
Garry would have also been a U/S in the O'Leary days when the masks in the US had the definitive eyebrow (the one on the left) the one on the right is more like the post McGillin ones that are used today in Vegas and by Gary when he was made principal (and has the look of the generic one size fits all model) others to have worn this would be Jason Mills, Richard Todd Adams, John Cudia, TMG, Howard McGillin, Crivello & Barret and alot of the latest U/S (I actually like this style particularly how it looks on McGillin, but I do agree that in some people (Mauer and Adams in particular) it looks too big.

I really dont like the London masks. To be the forehead is way too big, particularly in U/S masks like SJD and Matt Camille. also the London eye shape is just really overdone for me. David Shannon's one didnt look too bad because he had a much smaller forehead. I don;t think London has had nice looking masks since Scott Davies, with some really nice looking ones like Ethan Freeman, Glyn Kerslake, Mike Sterling. But along the way they had some very odd looking ones like Bowman and Coussens.
Basel also seemed to have a 'London style' mask, which is thankful because alot of the Euro masks are very odd indeed.

Toronto and Karrie in particular have my favourite masks. all except for Colm, maybe it was because it was the first one made there, his in some of the pics looks rather lumpy.

justin-from-barbados

Posts: 505
Join date: 2010-01-27
Age: 37
Location: Barbados

View user profile http://www.flickr.com/photos/27199361@N08/

Back to top Go down

Re: The Phantom's Mask

Post  justin-from-barbados on Sun Dec 04, 2011 12:11 am

back to the pic above, you can use that to easily tell the diff in the 2 more recent US masks.
the earlier one on the left has the sharp eyebrow and the cheek part curves inwards over the lip.
the more recent model the brow starts to slant back upwards over the nose and the part over the lip looks cut off.

justin-from-barbados

Posts: 505
Join date: 2010-01-27
Age: 37
Location: Barbados

View user profile http://www.flickr.com/photos/27199361@N08/

Back to top Go down

Re: The Phantom's Mask

Post  operafantomet on Sun Dec 04, 2011 9:51 am

justin-from-barbados wrote:
I really dont like the London masks. To be the forehead is way too big, particularly in U/S masks like SJD and Matt Camille. also the London eye shape is just really overdone for me. David Shannon's one didnt look too bad because he had a much smaller forehead. I don;t think London has had nice looking masks since Scott Davies, with some really nice looking ones like Ethan Freeman, Glyn Kerslake, Mike Sterling. But along the way they had some very odd looking ones like Bowman and Coussens.
Oh I dunno, I am a big fan of Earl Carpenter's mask. I like how it fits his facial features.


_________________
JOSEFINE TO THE PHANTOM:
You come off as... somewhat... rough...

operafantomet

Posts: 3542
Join date: 2009-09-21
Age: 34
Location: Norway

View user profile http://www.anea.no

Back to top Go down

Re: The Phantom's Mask

Post  Phinnish Phan on Wed Dec 07, 2011 6:29 pm

What a great thread for all us mask-lovers! Here's a repost of pics of my Crawford mask and its painting.


First, the blank unpainted mask:



Base colour:



Shading, first step:



Shading, 2nd step:



Final colours 1:



Final colours 2:



Phinnish Phan

Posts: 18
Join date: 2010-08-16
Location: Finland

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: The Phantom's Mask

Post  Bunvendor on Wed Dec 07, 2011 6:43 pm

Phinnish Phan wrote:What a great thread for all us mask-lovers! Here's a repost of pics of my Crawford mask and its painting.

*pics removed*

May I be the first to say (on this thread at least), that your mask is awesome! Very nice job indeed.
OG

Bunvendor

Posts: 227
Join date: 2011-09-18
Location: England

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: The Phantom's Mask

Post  operafantomet on Wed Dec 07, 2011 11:47 pm

Phinnish Phan, I have commented on that mask previously, but I have to do it again. Beautiful work!

_________________
JOSEFINE TO THE PHANTOM:
You come off as... somewhat... rough...

operafantomet

Posts: 3542
Join date: 2009-09-21
Age: 34
Location: Norway

View user profile http://www.anea.no

Back to top Go down

Re: The Phantom's Mask

Post  SenorSwanky on Thu Dec 08, 2011 12:54 am

Wow! How did you make/acquire the mask itself?

SenorSwanky

Posts: 1604
Join date: 2009-09-25
Age: 29
Location: Raleigh, NC

View user profile http://www.facebook.com/dustiningalls

Back to top Go down

Re: The Phantom's Mask

Post  justin-from-barbados on Thu Dec 08, 2011 1:26 pm

I'd love to know that also.

I;ve thought of looking into making one, I think i can get access to the vacu-plastic moulding part, its the face casting that's my problem

justin-from-barbados

Posts: 505
Join date: 2010-01-27
Age: 37
Location: Barbados

View user profile http://www.flickr.com/photos/27199361@N08/

Back to top Go down

Re: The Phantom's Mask

Post  Phinnish Phan on Thu Dec 08, 2011 7:26 pm

Thanks for the nice comments! I didnt do the mask, a really gifted friend sculpted an awesome Michael Crawford bust (with deformity) and mask to go with it. Just prepped and painted it.

Here is a mask I did do myself. Its done with facecasting, so it fits me perfectly.







Phinnish Phan

Posts: 18
Join date: 2010-08-16
Location: Finland

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: The Phantom's Mask

Post  SenorSwanky on Fri Dec 09, 2011 8:12 am

Very nice! Reminiscent of the Hamburg masks. How exactly did you make that?

SenorSwanky

Posts: 1604
Join date: 2009-09-25
Age: 29
Location: Raleigh, NC

View user profile http://www.facebook.com/dustiningalls

Back to top Go down

Re: The Phantom's Mask

Post  Phinnish Phan on Fri Dec 09, 2011 1:03 pm

Thanks.

Here's a short run-thru of the process. First I made a facecast and sculpted the mask on the cast. Made a silicone mold of that, produced a solid mask in polyurethane and as that is a hard material, finished the sculpt using hard tools (dremel, sandpaper) to get a very smooth finish and made another silicone mold of that. I was supposed to vacuum-form the mask so I made a vacuum plug but my vacuum table broke (still havent got a new one) so this particular mask in slush-cast in liquid polyurethane and then airbrushed. Here's pics of the mold and the vacuum plug:




Phinnish Phan

Posts: 18
Join date: 2010-08-16
Location: Finland

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: The Phantom's Mask

Post  SenorSwanky on Fri Dec 09, 2011 6:21 pm

Cool. I'd love to learn how to do the entire process.

SenorSwanky

Posts: 1604
Join date: 2009-09-25
Age: 29
Location: Raleigh, NC

View user profile http://www.facebook.com/dustiningalls

Back to top Go down

Re: The Phantom's Mask

Post  Phinnish Phan on Fri Dec 09, 2011 11:01 pm

I would love to teach you, but we'd have to be in the same room. I could type 'til my fingers bleed and you could read my posts AND all the books on propmaking and whatnot, but still the only way to learn things is by doing them-getting the hands dirty! Smile

But whatever questions you might have, I am happy help in any way I can!

Phinnish Phan

Posts: 18
Join date: 2010-08-16
Location: Finland

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: The Phantom's Mask

Post  SenorSwanky on Sat Dec 10, 2011 1:28 am

I totally agree. I'm a learner by doing and seeing for just about anything. Written instructions are of limited value. I appreciate the pics and explanations you've given though.

SenorSwanky

Posts: 1604
Join date: 2009-09-25
Age: 29
Location: Raleigh, NC

View user profile http://www.facebook.com/dustiningalls

Back to top Go down

Re: The Phantom's Mask

Post  Bunvendor on Tue Dec 13, 2011 5:01 pm

Very nice work there, Phinnishphan!
Now here is a selection of my fave mask photos. Well, I mean my favourite production pics were a mask looks particularly good:




















This one is one of my screenshots, but I still love PK's mask here:


Anyone else got any fave mask pics?
OG

Bunvendor

Posts: 227
Join date: 2011-09-18
Location: England

View user profile

Back to top Go down

View previous topic View next topic Back to top

- Similar topics

Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum