Love Never Dies - all views allowed

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Re: Love Never Dies - all views allowed

Post  Phantomlove on Sat Mar 06, 2010 11:12 am

I for one is proud to be part of the "sad fandom" or whatever his Lordship called us in that article. At least we can do maths (1882+10 does not 1907 make), we know the characters, ie Raoul is not an abusive drunk and the Phantom is not a cuddly teddybear in his 20s with bad taste in jewelry and Christine would never sleep with the Phantom, not to mention Meg and Mme. We can also differentiate between good and bad lyrics and generally see that the story doesn't work.

I think we are a pretty damn intelligent group and maybe his Lordship should listen more to us than his yesmen. It must have been a shock for him to realise how much the Internet actually lives its own life. News travels in the blink of an eye, the whole recording is available for downloading a week before opening night etc, etc. It's quite interesting though that he is aware of the criticism and apparantely rather disturbed by it.

ETA: The quote about us being sad fans because we don't like the idea of the sequel is another of those things that shows how arrogant that man seems to be. Personally I think I would have a little more respect for the people who keep my shows going. Yes we are critiszising but he should be able to take that more graciously, especially since he has recieved quite a fair amount of praise for some of his music even by those who are against the whole idea.

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Re: Love Never Dies - all views allowed

Post  starryeyed on Sat Mar 06, 2010 2:43 pm

Okay so here lies a new, um "interesting" spoiler. A few people who went last night are saying that at the end of Bathing Beauty Meg now goes fully topless with her back to the audience. A lot of people are backing up each others stories (and one of the posters hasn't ever made up anything for the sake of rumour before so seems as though it is true) and saying that it is completely inappropriate as at some places you can still see quite a bit. Apparently there was children in the audience whose parents looked quite shocked...

If this is indeed true which it seems to be then I think this a big minus 10 points for me, it really sits uneasily, where is the need for nudity? It isn't even adding anything to the story is it?

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Re: Love Never Dies - all views allowed

Post  MasqPhan on Sat Mar 06, 2010 4:04 pm

Wow. When I think the whole thing can't get more ridiculous...
If that rumor is true, perhaps ALW heard us those times we joked about a "secret midnight Vegas show". Rolling Eyes

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Re: Love Never Dies - all views allowed

Post  Scorp on Sat Mar 06, 2010 5:41 pm

Thanks ALW, makes me wonder why I've been bothering to try and get people to vote for your most successful show. If they're that sad then I guess you can do without the award.

I'm fuming. The man has said many things over the last decade that have irritated me, but none as much as this. He wants it both ways. One minute it's a sequel, the next it's "standalone". One minute the "Phans can't wait", the next they're all lunatic obsessives who are out to sabotage his best ever work. Rolling Eyes I mean, it can't actually be the case that bloggers genuinely don't like what they've seen, can it? And how unsurprising that he uses the 'it's the best thing I've ever done' crap AGAIN...when I have heard that before? Oh, well maybe when Aspects, Sunset, Whistle, Beautiful Game and Woman in White were all being hyped up...

His PR team will regret this. And I don't believe for a second that Tim Rice seriously thinks a libretto with lyrics like these is actually the best thing ALW's had in ages. Thank God he said no to taking part in it.

If I ran this board, I would have a good mind to rename this section altogether to something like 'The 1986 stage musical', or 'Hal Prince's The Phantom of the Opera' or at the very least 'The 1986 musical by Lloyd Webber, Charles Hart and Richard Stilgoe'. The sight of his name is enough to annoy me at the moment.

No regrets about him seeing me rip up that flyer now... Mad silent

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Re: Love Never Dies - all views allowed

Post  LadyCDaae on Sat Mar 06, 2010 5:48 pm

You know the funny thing about the Internet? It works both ways. How many of us have watched a movie, or gotten into a TV show or music group, or bought a cast recording because the online community was saying "this is really good!" How many producers have generated interest in their product with clever web-based campaigning? If there's bad word of mouth about your show, you can't blame the Internet just because it's getting out faster than it used to.

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Re: Love Never Dies - all views allowed

Post  Phantomlove on Sat Mar 06, 2010 5:57 pm

Many good points Scorp. ALW is always hyping up the stuff he is presently working on. I stopped thinking his constant claims of "this person is the best discovery in years" or "It's the best libretto I've had in years" or "It's the score I've put most into ever" were credible a long time ago. He uses those superlatives far too often for them to actually mean anything.

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Re: Love Never Dies - all views allowed

Post  starryeyed on Sat Mar 06, 2010 6:47 pm

Two friends of mine were at the matinee today and confirmed Meg does indeed go topless and described it as "awful, truly awful and the song was awful too."

In reply to Scorp. I haven't commented on ALW's comments because they have actually angered me so much. I hope his comments come back to haunt him someday.

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Re: Love Never Dies - all views allowed

Post  Raphael on Sat Mar 06, 2010 7:22 pm

dolly-ry wrote:Okay so here lies a new, um "interesting" spoiler. A few people who went last night are saying that at the end of Bathing Beauty Meg now goes fully topless with her back to the audience. A lot of people are backing up each others stories (and one of the posters hasn't ever made up anything for the sake of rumour before so seems as though it is true) and saying that it is completely inappropriate as at some places you can still see quite a bit. Apparently there was children in the audience whose parents looked quite shocked...
Mark my words. If the next change he makes is having Meg writhe against a gigantic apple set piece, ALW is personally gunning for me.

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Re: Love Never Dies - all views allowed

Post  Scorp on Sat Mar 06, 2010 7:58 pm

Phantomlove wrote:Many good points Scorp. ALW is always hyping up the stuff he is presently working on. I stopped thinking his constant claims of "this person is the best discovery in years" or "It's the best libretto I've had in years" or "It's the score I've put most into ever" were credible a long time ago. He uses those superlatives far too often for them to actually mean anything.

OMG, Josefine, have you seen this? You're mentioned! http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/theatre/theatre-news/7386503/The-Phantom-returns-poor-show-Andrew.html

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Re: Love Never Dies - all views allowed

Post  operafantomet on Sat Mar 06, 2010 8:01 pm

Josefine Sjoqyist, a Swedish housewife

?? Hahaha! Rather, Sjöqvist, a Swedish journalist? But very cool to be mentioned. I guess they found it through RUG's cover of the 100th performance event in Copenhagen. Very Happy

ETA: but he seems to have gotten the basics right, on both "sides".

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Re: Love Never Dies - all views allowed

Post  Paula74 on Sat Mar 06, 2010 8:38 pm

I saw the "sad" fans comment on another forum late last night and my mind just screamed ARROGANT.

First, you don't rhymes-with-spit on the people who spent a LOT on show tickets, merchandising, etc. over the years. It's like saying, "Thanks for your money, enjoy the show, now go *bleep* off."

And what creative artist wouldn't be gratified to know one of their works has really truly touched so many people?

As for Meg's topless routine...I highly doubt something like that would have even been LEGAL in Coney Island back then. It makes me think of how City officials raided a Broadway theatre that was performing a Mae West played that was deemed obscene. Having the Ooh-La-La Girl flashing her boobs would've probably attracted a raid like that...which would be an interesting addition to this messed-up story.

That reminds me...looking at her costume, I can't see how it goes with any sort of "bathing beauty" theme. It screams Vegas, not the Coney Island shore.

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Re: Love Never Dies - all views allowed

Post  Phantomlove on Sat Mar 06, 2010 8:51 pm

To be honest I'm not sure I think it is that cool to be mentioned in this. I'm described as a housewife with a romantic streak and a tendency to emotional vulnerability, WTF? And where on earth did they get the housewife part from? I can't remember it saying anything about me being a housewife in those things that were written last spring when I celebrated my 100 performance. I'm a bloody journalist with a five year university education. Sorry, but the housewife part really irritated me.

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Re: Love Never Dies - all views allowed

Post  Scorp on Sat Mar 06, 2010 9:35 pm

Phantomlove wrote:To be honest I'm not sure I think it is that cool to be mentioned in this. I'm described as a housewife with a romantic streak and a tendency to emotional vulnerability, WTF? And where on earth did they get the housewife part from? I can't remember it saying anything about me being a housewife in those things that were written last spring when I celebrated my 100 performance. I'm a bloody journalist with a five year university education. Sorry, but the housewife part really irritated me.

The cynical side of me thinks the 'housewife' thing was deliberate attempt to characterise you as being an unhealthy obsessive with too much time and no life. You should probably write to the paper demanding a correction. Considering the length of time you've been a Phan fan, in reality the amount of times you and most other people here have seen the show doesn't strike me as particularly unhealthy. (Of course, I have known of others who have seen the show way more than that and to this day do not understand just how they have the time, money or will to do so...I personally could never see the same production of the same show hundreds and hundreds of times on end on a monthly basis, but who I am to judge?).

On the plus side, I'm pleased with some of the stuff that article mentions, including the fact that fans were not happy with the 2004 movie either.

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Re: Love Never Dies - all views allowed

Post  Phantomlove on Sat Mar 06, 2010 9:54 pm

That's exactly why it irritated me. I felt I am described as a housewife with nothing intelligent to do so I spend my husband's money on Phantom and day dream all the time about things that happen in romance novels. Ok, I know it didn't exactly say that, but that's what I read between the lines. I will get in contact with that journalist. I have a bit of trouble finding his mail though, but maybe I should call him? Could be interesting.

Housewife... Rolling Eyes there are hardly any housewives in Sweden...

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Re: Love Never Dies - all views allowed

Post  Viscountess on Sat Mar 06, 2010 11:54 pm

Phantomlove wrote:That's exactly why it irritated me. I felt I am described as a housewife with nothing intelligent to do so I spend my husband's money on Phantom and day dream all the time about things that happen in romance novels. Ok, I know it didn't exactly say that, but that's what I read between the lines. I will get in contact with that journalist. I have a bit of trouble finding his mail though, but maybe I should call him? Could be interesting.

Housewife... Rolling Eyes there are hardly any housewives in Sweden...
You really should try to contact him. On one hand, it's not the biggest gaffe that could have been made, on the other, it does have a potentially negative connotation.

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Re: Love Never Dies - all views allowed

Post  Mandrake on Sun Mar 07, 2010 12:04 am

The article describes a kind of "phan" I dont recognise. I've seen the show many scores of times. I've never been in any kind of costume and I've never seen anyone else in any kind of costume.

This aspect of it has been exaggerated for dramatic effect, I think. I suspect ALW's concern for on-line criticism has also been exaggerated for the same reason. Hardly anyone knows about online conglomerations of Phantom fans, ALW simply doesn't care as we make up a tiny, and frankly impotent, minority of the audience. I think his only concern is that all the negative speculation is poisoning LND's well (he doesn't seem to have grasped that the possibility that it deserves to be poisoned).

Anyone reading this article needs to be aware that the print media in the UK is, increasingly, a shocking disgrace, an embarrassment to an otherwise cultured and restrained nation. It invariably condescends to the lowest common denominator and wilfully attempts to generate discord, drama and confrontation where none would, otherwise, naturally arise. Its sole goal in doing so is to generate sales or recognition.

"On any night of the week, you can see them swarming around Haymarket, many in costume. They follow a routine that essentially consists of seeing the show, weeping copiously as the Phantom (today played by David Shannon)lets rip with Music of the Night, and buying another ticket on the way out."

No. I saw Waiting for Godot tonight, directly across the road from Phantom. No obvious "phans" on Haymarket, no-one in costume. I've never seen any swarms on Haymarket. The only people I've ever seen in costumes are the actual actors, hanging out their windows for a fag, on Charles II Street during a hot summer. Nor have I ever seen anyone weeping. I certainly haven't seen anyone buying repeat tickets. Maybe this happened years ago... Frankly, I'm not even sure it's physicallty possible to buy a ticket "on the way out". Who buys their tickets from theatres these days? No-one. This article is full of ridiculous hyperbolae. It's a construct, and excuse for a story that doesn't actually exist.

I'm really becoming very cynical about how many west-end journalists are in ALW's pocket, financially or otherwise. This fellow, Baz... His reviews and OTT exclamations are just so ludicrous. I don't know how he can expect to have any credibility going forward.

As for the original Phantom being "panned by critics", perhaps it was. I don't remember. But I do remember that it was front-page and headline news leading up to opening night, that it had a couple of top-ten hits and that, if I recall, Princess Diana attended the opening performance. Nothing like that kind of buzz has arisen around LND.

I'm sure all this is playing into ALW's hands, a desperate attempt to recreate thr sort of buzz that surrounded the original Phantom's launch. LND has come nowhere near this level of anticipation. I can remember it, just... Decades before I ever saw the show. No-one will remember the launch of LND, because it's clearly awful.

My objection to LND was never "proprietorial". My objection didn't stem from a delusion of ownership. It was aesthetic. It's a pointless show. The only conceivable use for a sequel is to finish an unfinished story or enhance the ending of an already finished story. LND fails on both counts. The original finishes perfectly. The whole show is perfectly balanced, wonderfully timed and climaxes in exactly the right place and in precisely the right way with everyone going home satisfied that the best conceivable ending has been achieved. Everyone gets what they either want or need. It is almost inconceivable that LND could eclipse this as the ending is already as good as it can get, within human tolerances.

I just don't know why he couldn't have rested on his laurels, or continued pumping out pap on the BBC. If I were him, it's what I'd do. Quietly retire, occasionally stroll down Haymarket at 19:20 of an evening if my ego needed massaging. I don't know how he gets to a place where he could think it possible that, in his dotage, he could somehow surpass his single, youthful, masterpiece. It should be enough for anyone to have achieved what he has.

Even before his latest "sad" tantrum, my opinion of ALW was that he was a very flawed genius; and that his flaws outweighed his genius. Frankly, he got lucky once (and with the help of others who were perhaps more worthy of acclaim). I always thought he looked the kind of guy to have a rather petulant, childish side to his character and his recent behaviour only reinforces that opinion.

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Re: Love Never Dies - all views allowed

Post  starryeyed on Sun Mar 07, 2010 12:10 am

Mandrake you have summed up all my thoughts there, thanks for that, it was all in my head and I couldn't think how to actually write it down. I especially agree with all the inaccuracies regarding people on Haymarket. The only time I've seen "swarms" is when everyone is coming out and like you have said I have never once seen anyone in costume, although a friend of mine said they could have been referring to the t-shirts sold in the foyer, but even then I've never actually seen someone on Haymarket in one of those t-shirts either...

And Josefine, I say get in touch with him for what it is worth.

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Re: Love Never Dies - all views allowed

Post  phantomgirl110 on Sun Mar 07, 2010 1:48 am

Who are these people? Phans come as a glorious assortment of types, although the majority are women. Such psychological research as has been done suggests that they share a romantic streak and a tendency towards emotional vulnerability.
You're right, no human being would stack books like this normal, sane person has ever been drawn to an intriguing plotline, beautiful music, and intelligent production.

The strain of phandom can be punishing, though, as the unhappy story of Dan Lehner illustrates. The wealthy New York businessman, hailed as America’s most fanatical phan, met his future wife at an early Broadway performance, proposed to her during the intermission of another one four years later and continued catching the show at least once a week, before becoming so obsessed with it that in 1995 he bought all 1,609 seats in the Majestic Theatre for a private performance in aid of charity. Two years later, he died of a heart attack at the age of 49.
...is he actually suggesting that the man's heart attack was caused by his love of the show? O_o

Last year, thousands of phans from all over the world descended on Las Vegas for a week-long celebration of all things Phantom
Most of them must have been hiding then, because I only remember about 250 people being there.

which included an all-day workshop on the history of Paris’s Opera Garnier, where the story is set
Funny, I must have missed that one. I went to all of the workshops offered, none were about the opera house, and all were 90 minutes long.

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Re: Love Never Dies - all views allowed

Post  LadyCDaae on Sun Mar 07, 2010 4:32 am

Since our own dear Mme. Giry was asking, a picture of her namesake:



By my count, she's been putting up with the Phantom for at least thirteen years and so far all she's gotten out of it is a little lace cravat and a cheap brooch. No wonder she's so cheesed off--the least he could do was spot her the money for a new dress.

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Re: Love Never Dies - all views allowed

Post  Viscountess on Sun Mar 07, 2010 4:47 am

LadyCDaae wrote:Since our own dear Mme. Giry was asking, a picture of her namesake:

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f87/artistkae/UNKNOWN%20SCENES/MmeGiry01.jpg

By my count, she's been putting up with the Phantom for at least thirteen years and so far all she's gotten out of it is a little lace cravat and a cheap brooch. No wonder she's so cheesed off--the least he could do was spot her the money for a new dress.

~LCD
I think what I love most that it's even made out of the the exact same material as her dress in the original.

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Re: Love Never Dies - all views allowed

Post  ML6 on Sun Mar 07, 2010 6:47 am

phantomgirl110 wrote:
Who are these people? Phans come as a glorious assortment of types, although the majority are women. Such psychological research as has been done suggests that they share a romantic streak and a tendency towards emotional vulnerability.
You're right, no human being would stack books like this normal, sane person has ever been drawn to an intriguing plotline, beautiful music, and intelligent production.

I SAW THAT GHOSTBUSTERS QUOTE.

Anyway, I'm officially done with Webber. The only reason why I'm on this board is because I like to pretend he was still with Tim Rice, and the musicals were actually decently good.

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Re: Love Never Dies - all views allowed

Post  operafantomet on Sun Mar 07, 2010 9:16 am

Mandrake, agreed, agreed and agreed!

I've stayed out of most discussions in papers and such, but I had to comment on the one Scorp linked to. Sorry if any of you disagrees, but I had to get it off my chest:


To be fair, Josefine Sjöqvist is not "a Swedish housewife" with a "tendency towards emotional vulnerability".

Instead, she's a Swedish journalist who's been a life-long fan of "Phantom of the Opera" and who's seized the chance to see the musical when it's been playing nearby where she's lived or been at vacation. Seeing 100 performances might sound like a lot, and is more than your average theatre goer, but it's been spread out over 25 years.

Also, the Las Vegas phan convention gathered around 250 fans, not "thousands", and the person who's seen Phantom the most has seen around 300 performances, not "almost thousand".

Fans of Phantom isn't merely fans of Andrew Lloyd Webber's stage musical. Just as many is fan of Gaston Leroux's original novel (whose family isn't thrilled about the sequel, mind you), or other books, movies and stage shows.

Biggest problem with the sequel, as I see it, is that the storyline is very poor, bordering phan fictions at its worst. Basing it on the book "Phantom of Manhattan", which has a rating of 2 of 5 stars at Amazon, is hardly the best fundament for a make-or-break musical, and many fans of Phantom (again, not just ALWs stage show) thinks it has little to do with Phantom in other than the name.

The initial protests started when the producers of "Love Never Dies" tried to create an official image of "fans craving for it" and "fans have waited for this for decades". Sure, some are very thrilled. But a large group of fans was put off by the fundamental story and the first songs released, and wanted to tell the public that the outward picture the producers gave was a false one. "Phans" is not one homogenous group.

This resulted in the "Love Should Die" campaign and in loud public protests. Apparently this caught Andrew Lloyd Webber off guard, and he and his team dismiss it as "sad fans of the original" protesting on a product they know nothing about. This despise the fact that preview performances has been held, the whole cast album and lyrics has leaked on the internet, and videos has been released. And again, this is not merely fans of his original stage show, it's fans of Phantom in all shapes and versions.

That said, I did actually enjoy this article...

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Re: Love Never Dies - all views allowed

Post  operafantomet on Sun Mar 07, 2010 1:22 pm

Mandrake wrote:As for the original Phantom being "panned by critics", perhaps it was.
Not really. The original London production opened to some mixed and some raving reviews. Some of them are put out in the official POTO site, here:
http://www.thephantomoftheopera.com/news_reviews/media_reviews.php

The original Broadway production reviews were more mixed, but none of them slaughtered it either, as far as I know. The most negative ones had issues with Sarah Brightman and Andrew Lloyd Webber on a personal level, and found the musical melodramatic, but even the most negative ones didn't pan it. Correct me if I'm wrong, though. Some early reviews and articles can be found here:
http://www.early-sarah-brightman.com/1980s_newspaper_articles.htm

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Re: Love Never Dies - all views allowed

Post  Scorp on Sun Mar 07, 2010 3:17 pm

OK, what I'm about to say could possibly get me into trouble, so I'm going to use a disclaimer here that this is ENTIRELY CONJECTURE on my part. I have no proof of any of this.

I bought the print edition of The Sunday Telegraph today and found the article that I linked to previously that mentions Josefine. The more I read it, the more I am convinced that RUG are behind it.

I think The Times said in one of their articles talking about the fan backlash that Lloyd Webber has had to hire no less than 2 PR agencies for this show. I reckon The Times article that came out earlier this week gave RUG a shock, and they are using their influence over The Telegraph and The Daily Mail to try and get the game to go their way again.

The conspiracy theorist in me -- not that I knew there was one in me, until now -- believes that, now things like the What's On Stage board and LSD have completely ruined the image that we've all been eagerly awaiting this sequel, RUG's new tactic is to marginalise the fans who are against LND by trying to discredit their opinions and credibility by characterising them as a minority crowd of obsessives with no lives who cannot be taken seriously. If I'm right, then this is a disgusting game to play, but I haven't come to this tentative conclusion without a little thought.

In the print edition (if you want to buy it, it's on page 18), the article is accompanied by one of those grotesque cartoon caricatures that the British press usually uses. The subject of the caricature are the Phans themselves. They are a collection of middle-aged men and women, all of whom are wearing masks and are either wearing Phantom T-Shirts or are in full costume, masks and capes and everything. Some of them are holding Phantom-style candles. All of them have stupid excited grins on their faces and many of them are holding portraits of ALW in affection, basically in the same way the descamisados in Evita hold up portraits of Eva Perón. One man has got "I <3 ALW" on his T-Shirt, another woman has "Season Ticket" on hers next to a mask, and another has "WEBBER AND EVER AND EVER AND EVER" on hers. When you are confronted with this image along with the article, you cannot come away with any other impression except that Phantom fans, especially the ones against the sequel, are delusional obsessives who only see one show forever and ever and ever and pretty much wrap their lives around the original production.

The more I read the actual text of the article, the more I get whiffs of bias in favour of RUG. Note the description of Josefine as a "housewife", which of course isn't true. To make Phans sound even weirder, all the negative reviews it purports to quote of LND use the 'ph-' prefix: "Stand by for a phlop", "Phor ph***'s sake, Andrew, don't" etc. Where on earth did the person who wrote this article get these from? I haven't seen those quotations anywhere, and I've read quite a few different theatre and Phantom message boards. Hardly anyone I know of uses that prefix to such an extent. Not even the tween fangirls. I honestly think the author made them up. Then of course there's the nonsense about people dressing up in costume every night to see Phantom and "weeping copiously". I've never seen anyone in costume hanging around Haymarket in my life. This is a concocted extreme picture of fans that has no basis in reality. The word "sad" comes up more than once, even outside of the quotation of what ALW said the other day. And then there's apparently the need for "psychological research" to find out more about 'Phans'' behavioural patterns.

It occurred to me that you'd have to do a fair bit of research to find out about Josefine and where she has seen the show, as well as to find about that man who bought out the entire Majestic one night. Those aren't well-known facts, even to a lot of Phantom fans. My hunch is that RUG supplied these to the writer, and asked for a twist in their favour. Let's not forget that it was this very paper that ALW guest-edited either last week or the week before with an entire magazine supplement being devoted to promoting Love Never Dies. ALW regularly writes for The Telegraph. The paper is also known to be politically on the right, which is where ALW is as a Conservative peer, and it's also where The Daily Mail is (the paper which employs Baz "LND is a masterpiece" Bamigboye). The Vegas convention is hardly known to the British media either. Either the writer went all out and really dug for stuff for this article, which I find unlikely since it's a piece that is obviously written half in jest, or RUG gave him these facts.

The only paragraph that I find relatively neutral is the final paragraph which raises the question of ownership of the Phantom story. But I have a horrible feeling that it is a sham insertion designed to veil what may be a very cruel and calculating tactic by RUG. What else could they be doing with two PR companies working for them?

I think I might send a letter to the editor via email. It probably won't get published, but it's worth a shot. Not sure what to say, though...maybe I'll rephrase the basics of Mandrake's excellent post.

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Re: Love Never Dies - all views allowed

Post  LadyCDaae on Sun Mar 07, 2010 3:38 pm

I admit similar thoughts had crossed my mind, Scorp. Makes you wonder how many of those "limited press night" tickets went to critics more likely to give the show a good review...

~LCD

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Re: Love Never Dies - all views allowed

Post  Phantomlove on Sun Mar 07, 2010 4:19 pm

Scorp: I think you hit the nail right again. I didn't know ALW frequently writes for The Daily Telegraph, but it makes a bit of sense if he does and one of his pals wrote this up. The whole thing left a bit of a bad taste in my mouth actually, not just the part about me. There were also all these ironic generalisations about weeping "phans" swarming Haymarket in costume and writing everything with a ph instead of f. And nothing was substantiated really. There weren't any sources in the article as far as I can remember, just a whole load of speculation. The reporter takes speculation and presents it as facts without telling us where he got his information. That isn't cool really. For example, he talks about psychological studies that have been made on Phantom fans. Who made them? At what university? Is there a paper written somewhere so we can read it for ourselves? I read that article as a way of trying to ridicule Phantom fans really. The part about the American business man is also strange. The reporter puts together two different things, that the man is such a big fan that he buys every seat at the Majestic for a charity event and that he two years later dies of a heart attack. He seems to want us to believe that the man died of a heart attack because he was a crazy Phantom fan, but where is the logic in that?

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Re: Love Never Dies - all views allowed

Post  ML6 on Sun Mar 07, 2010 7:37 pm

So let me get this straight: If Andrew Lloyd Webber starts dissing his fans, more precisely, the ones who use the 'p' instead of the 'f'... does that mean that the stupid 'phan' thing will die?

Other than that, I'm really getting worried about how Really Useful Group and Webber are reacting towards this. It seems like they're making shit up about Love Should Die. Now they're making shit up about the fans of Phantom. This is just crazy.

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Re: Love Never Dies - all views allowed

Post  Madame Giry on Mon Mar 08, 2010 3:36 am

LadyCDaae wrote:Since our own dear Mme. Giry was asking, a picture of her namesake:

(pic removed)

By my count, she's been putting up with the Phantom for at least thirteen years and so far all she's gotten out of it is a little lace cravat and a cheap brooch. No wonder she's so cheesed off--the least he could do was spot her the money for a new dress.

~LCD

Just got back from a whirlwind cross-country trip so I'm catching up with all the lattest LND chatter.

Thanks, LCD! Your commentary is spot on, too. You know, the fact that so many elements of the original show's costume designs have been retained for the sequel make me wonder if there are any grounds for the Estate of Maria Bjornson bringing suit against RUG (assuming that RUG didn't consult with the Estate about ripping off adapting some of her designs).

Now, about this outrageous article that seems to paint fans of the original show as a bunch of crackpots.

I am absolutely appalled by this piece of trash, despite the fact that it mentions that there is significant opposition to the sequel. The whole thing reeks of a general character assassination of Phantom fans. Painting us as emotionally unstable housewives who devote every dime and waking hour to the pursuit of seeing the show over and over again is simply beyond the pale. Actually, no, I think I was most horrified by the implication that the wealthy American fan died as a result of his enthusiastic pursuit of supporting and seeing the show. As much as I am a skeptic, I find myself agreeing with Scorp's speculation that this article was indeed a hit piece by writers on RUG's payrole. It just blows everything about fans out of proportion. As a fan of 16 years and counting, I have perhaps occasionally run across the transient self-proclaimed 'die hard' internet fan with a borderline hysterical approach to the show, but they have all disappeared/moved on. The ones who are in it for the long haul strike me as generally well-educated, articulate, rational, and generous, and in many cases lead interesting lives in which Phantom plays a significant, though hardly dominating part. And dammit fans don't feel like they OWN the show! There's nothing possessive in wishing that the integrity of the original story - that DOES NOT belong to some entitled aging British composer -to be preserved.

And someone needs to tell Lloyd Webber that it really is in bad taste to summarily dismiss devoted supporters of a show that has raked in something like $5 billion dollars.

Oh, and Meg going topless? While I instinctively recoil at the idea, I wonder if she's wearing a nude bodysuit, similar to the one worn by 'Sarah' in Tanz Der Vampire?

Okay, I think I'm all caught up now, so I'm going to try out the new Korean Cast Album that arrived in the mail while I was away. Hopefully it will prove more uplifting than what I've read in the past few pages of this thread. Razz

~Madame~

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Re: Love Never Dies - all views allowed

Post  SenorSwanky on Mon Mar 08, 2010 5:30 am

justin-from-barbados wrote:Very heavy looking mask though, reminds me of the german ones mixed in with the aussie/world tour ones, particularly Rob Guest's one
Yeah, I thought the same thing. Not a big fan of the mask, nor of Ramin's look in general, which is too young. I don't like how they do the eyebrow in the US productions in more recent years, but at least there's an attempt to do something more than just slap a mask and wig on him, to make the eyes and lips stand out for audience members further back from the stage. I also hate the wig; as others have mentioned, very Gerry-esque.


Last edited by SenorSwanky on Mon Mar 08, 2010 6:52 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Love Never Dies - all views allowed

Post  SenorSwanky on Mon Mar 08, 2010 5:38 am

operafantomet wrote:http://billbuckleylondon.blogspot.com/

I feel uncustomarily nervous because I shall be slating one of the giants of musical theatre. There's no logical reason to be, as I shall only be proferring an honest opinion. That opinion will be that the show is a total turkey. With stuffing, cranberry sauce and chipolatas.

(...)

I am not one of Theatreland's sneering snobs who routinely dismiss Lloyd Webber. I love Jesus Christ Superstar, Evita, Sunset Boulevard and the original Phantom. But please, if you are thinking of spending £50 of your hard-earned money on a West End musical, don't waste it on this bum-numbing tosh. Not when Priscilla Queen of the Desert, Wicked, Billy Elliot, Sister Act and especially Legally Blonde are around. If you want high drama, suffering and quasi opera rather than feelgood fun, catch Les Miserables. It's still doing good business after more than 24 years. Love Never Dies doesn't deserve to run for 24 days.



Erm.... Ouch...
Sounds about right.

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Re: Love Never Dies - all views allowed

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