Le Palais Garnier

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Re: Le Palais Garnier

Post  Melly on Wed Feb 22, 2012 10:48 am

Mmm for example, in english you would say: a blue chair, in french we would say: une chaise bleue (almost the same even if instead of "A" we have "un" or "une" for male/female - first example.)

In english you would say: A nice day, but we would not say Une journée bonne (wich litteraly means for you: a day nice), the adjective comes after the word. We would say: une bonne journée, with bonne/nice before journée/day. WHY?! I don't know!

In english when you have a rule it generally works for everything... in France the adjective can be before or after the word, it depends, there's no specific rule but "knowing the language" Razz

Oh and another example:

Je fais
Tu fais
Il/Elle fait
Nous faisons
Vous faites
Ils/Elles font

when in english you'd have:

I do
You do
He/She does (OGM this one is different! XD)
We do
You do
They do

So simple O_O

I still don't understand why my boyfriend keeps saying english is difficult to learn!

Sorry for the digression Smile
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Re: Le Palais Garnier

Post  AlwaysChristine on Wed Feb 22, 2012 11:05 am

Melly wrote:Mmm for example, in english you would say: a blue chair, in french we would say: une chaise bleue (almost the same even if instead of "A" we have "un" or "une" for male/female - first example.)

In english you would say: A nice day, but we would not say Une journée bonne (wich litteraly means for you: a day nice), the adjective comes after the word. We would say: une bonne journée, with bonne/nice before journée/day. WHY?! I don't know!

In english when you have a rule it generally works for everything... in France the adjective can be before or after the word, it depends, there's no specific rule but "knowing the language" Razz

Oh and another example:

Je fais
Tu fais
Il/Elle fait
Nous faisons
Vous faites
Ils/Elles font

when in english you'd have:

I do
You do
He/She does (OGM this one is different! XD)
We do
You do
They do

So simple O_O

I still don't understand why my boyfriend keeps saying english is difficult to learn!

Sorry for the digression Smile

I know french is not easy to learn, but I like it.
Maybe we both can talk private a little bit in french because I want to refresh it.
The numbers also not so easy to learn and explain..!
There was I time I speak french perfect, but I lost it because I had no chance to talk or work with it.

Ok and again to the Palais Garnier: How often you were there?
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Re: Le Palais Garnier

Post  Melly on Wed Feb 22, 2012 11:06 am

If you need help with french, then, don't hesitate Wink
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Re: Le Palais Garnier

Post  AlwaysChristine on Wed Feb 22, 2012 11:12 am

Melly wrote:If you need help with french, then, don't hesitate Wink

Thank you very much! Very Happy
Do you know " Le Fantome de l´Opera" the title song sung by Robert Marien?
Or "Musique de la Nuit".
I want to translate it..

I have some musicals in french at home..

Do you think Phantom will be on stage in Paris one day?
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Re: Le Palais Garnier

Post  Melly on Wed Feb 22, 2012 11:18 am

I've got 2 different versions of the Phantom in french in my playlists (because of the canadian and french translation of the 2004 movie), and Yes I know the Robert Marien's version Very Happy

In France we have somme musicals, sometimes good but... it's rare. Les misérables is a french musical which has been translated. I'm really sad to see that we don't have it anymore in France since it keeps playings all over the world...

It would be wonderful to have a Phtanom here. But frenchs don't have the taste for good musical maybe? What a shame! T_T
Even if the phantom came here, it would be better to have it in original version Razz (even if french translations are not bad at all Smile)

I can't imagine the Phantom at the real Opera Garnier with the 8 tons chandelier falling down on the crowd haha! Twisted Evil
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Re: Le Palais Garnier

Post  AlwaysChristine on Wed Feb 22, 2012 11:36 am

Melly wrote:I've got 2 different versions of the Phantom in french in my playlists (because of the canadian and french translation of the 2004 movie), and Yes I know the Robert Marien's version Very Happy

In France we have somme musicals, sometimes good but... it's rare. Les misérables is a french musical which has been translated. I'm really sad to see that we don't have it anymore in France since it keeps playings all over the world...

It would be wonderful to have a Phtanom here. But frenchs don't have the taste for good musical maybe? What a shame! T_T
Even if the phantom came here, it would be better to have it in original version Razz (even if french translations are not bad at all Smile)

I can't imagine the Phantom at the real Opera Garnier with the 8 tons chandelier falling down on the crowd haha! Twisted Evil

Yes I have also the translation from the movie in french.
And do you like Marien´s version?

I know that you have some musicals. Some I know.
I have Les Miserables in french as well.

I wish I could see the original Phantom some day in french. Maybe with a better translation.

Hihi, Phantom in the real Garnier Opera, funny!

I ordered now the book L´Opera de Charles Garnier Smile.
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Re: Le Palais Garnier

Post  Melly on Wed Feb 22, 2012 12:56 pm

I'm not fond of the Marien's version since he uses some strange words! For example "Chantez comme moi ma Mie" means sing like me "ma mie", ma mie is a medieval word to say ma dame during the middle age O_o Very strange.

I don't even speak about some words that Christine pronounces in the Phantom of the Opera. "Sans cesse ce nom qu'il dit glisse t-il en moi"... Means almost nothing... It just rhymes... and as this phrase is almost stifled (not sure of the word in english, well, I mean we don't understand it very well) I first heard... something else which was PG18 ^^' VERY STRANGE... I was not the only one, my sister understood the same thing first... I won't say what but we were very surprised! Razz

Oh so many books about the Opera Garnier! Now that I'm not a student anymore, I should go back to the Opera Store and buy all the books which were forbidden to my little purse Very Happy
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Re: Le Palais Garnier

Post  AlwaysChristine on Wed Feb 22, 2012 7:55 pm

Melly wrote:I'm not fond of the Marien's version since he uses some strange words! For example "Chantez comme moi ma Mie" means sing like me "ma mie", ma mie is a medieval word to say ma dame during the middle age O_o Very strange.

I don't even speak about some words that Christine pronounces in the Phantom of the Opera. "Sans cesse ce nom qu'il dit glisse t-il en moi"... Means almost nothing... It just rhymes... and as this phrase is almost stifled (not sure of the word in english, well, I mean we don't understand it very well) I first heard... something else which was PG18 ^^' VERY STRANGE... I was not the only one, my sister understood the same thing first... I won't say what but we were very surprised! Razz

Oh so many books about the Opera Garnier! Now that I'm not a student anymore, I should go back to the Opera Store and buy all the books which were forbidden to my little purse Very Happy

Ok it sounds better in french but the translation is not good. I understand what you mean!

Yes so many books from all! I hope I am soon in Paris at the Opera. I want it sooo.!
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Re: Le Palais Garnier

Post  AlwaysChristine on Mon Feb 27, 2012 9:50 am

Scorp wrote:
Now if only they would make such a book about the interior!

They already have; I highly recommend it:



It's by Gérard Fontaine and called L'Opéra de Charles Garnier : Architecture et décor intérieur. The photography is absolutely gorgeous. I own the French edition, but the Opera House does sell an English translation. You can buy the French one on Amazon.fr, not sure about the English one though.

Gérard Fontaine also wrote a book which is perhaps for relevant for Phantom enthusiasts called Le Fantasme de l'Opéra. In it, he includes an account of the chandelier counterweight incident (it's the same account that Le Figaro ran the day after in 1896), talks about the lake and how it was formed and also theorises that Erik was at least partly based on Charles Garnier (I'm not too convinced by his reasoning though -- e.g. Erik wrote Don Juan, and the subtitle of Molière's Dom Juan and I think Mozart's Don Giovanni is Le Festin de pierre, which Fontaine thinks hints at Garnier/architecture since "pierre" means stone). The Opera sells this book too.



What the Opera now sells that it didn't before is Charles Garnier's Le Nouvel Opéra. I haven't read it yet, but it's a must-read because it is written by Charles Garnier himself and apparently Leroux lifted whole passages from it in his descriptions of the Opera House.



I also really recommend this book:



It's called Opéra de Paris : un siècle au Palais Garnier. I bought my copy at the Opera House years ago, not sure if they still sell it. If you don't speak French, definitely buy it because it's dual language and is in English too. It contains several pages about the possible real-life basis of Leroux's story, including stuff about Nilsson and even rare stuff that I never see mentioned -- e.g. apparently the description of Buquet's death is taken from a real-life memoir of one of the managers which I keep meaning to get hold of but have not got round to doing.

Also, I like this book for its illustrations, it's for children but it's fun and the protagonist in this little story ends up going to the lake:



http://www.lesilencedelopera.com/ <-- you can see extracts from the book here.

There are more I like, but those are my favourites.

I recall reading somewhere that the gift shop's selection has been broadened considerably. Can anyone who has recently been there tell me what kind of merchandise they're selling? My sister will be in Paris early next month and I was going to ask her to swing by if something sparked my interest.

Yeah, they changed everything over the last year. I think it was last summer they did this. The entrance to the building is no longer via the front, which I think is unfortunate as you lose the impact of seeing the Grand Escalier in front of you (although I imagine they would still use this entrance for performances), but via the rue Scribe near the Charles Garnier monument. The gift shop has extended from where it was into another room on the side and it sells way more interesting things. There's a cool set of merchandise that features the Opéra de Paris logo and the names of several well-known operas, composers and even 'Le Fantôme de l'Opéra' -- pens, mugs, pads, bags etc. I bought the mug. Lots of expensive masks and if you are really rich you can pay almost 1000 € for a bust of Garnier!! Sadly a lot of the stuff is overpriced like this. But some interesting items, almost all theatre/ballet related, including a toy theatre for kids, but a bit too expensive I think. They were doing a promotion this summer that you'd get a free pack of Opéra de Paris playing cards with any purchase you make. Some Phantom novels are stocked too, including Leroux's (the current Livre de Poche edition with the awful Gerard and Emmy cover), The Canary Trainer and La Douleur du Fantôme. You can also buy the double CD of the phonographic records that Leroux mentions in his novel and which were recovered in 2007. I've bought it but haven't given it a listen yet.

This thread is for any and all discussion of the Palais Garnier: stories and pics of your visits to the Mecca of the Phandom, questions, etc.

Can't be bothered to post any pics right now but my most memorable experiences there were a) breaking into Box Five and, after 15 minutes, being joined by two English 'Phans' who turned out to be people I knew online (!) and b) seeing an opera there...I bought a cheap seat up in the gods and all I could see was the huge chandelier and hardly anything on the stage, but I didn't care! Alas, it wasn't Faust. I've broken into the upper levels a few times to take pics. I keep wanting to go down to the cellars -- every fan's dream -- but I've not managed it yet. Insanely jealous of those who have been down there though.

I must have all these books! I must see the opera!
Today my book L`Opera de Charles Garnier arrived and its sooo wonderful!
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Re: Le Palais Garnier

Post  Melly on Mon Feb 27, 2012 9:58 am

I've got "Un siècle au palais Garnier" too. It's a short book but it's a good summary of the Opera in General. Constructon, Life at the Opera, the great singers, the legend of the Phantom, etc. It is easy and funny to read (there are many illustrations, which is very important for me, as an illustrator haha Very Happy)
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Re: Le Palais Garnier

Post  AlwaysChristine on Mon Feb 27, 2012 10:59 am

Melly wrote:I've got "Un siècle au palais Garnier" too. It's a short book but it's a good summary of the Opera in General. Constructon, Life at the Opera, the great singers, the legend of the Phantom, etc. It is easy and funny to read (there are many illustrations, which is very important for me, as an illustrator haha Very Happy)

The Opera shop is not safe Wink.
I must have many things...but at first I must see Paris, must see France.
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Re: Le Palais Garnier

Post  AlwaysChristine on Sun Mar 25, 2012 10:12 am

Some friend of mine was yesterday in the Opera. He was there, has seen a ballett and looked for box 5. He was very proud to be there.
I also want to be there...!
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Re: Le Palais Garnier

Post  Scorp on Mon Aug 13, 2012 5:23 pm


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Re: Le Palais Garnier

Post  NightRachel on Tue Aug 14, 2012 12:16 pm

Thanks for the link, Scorp!

Those are some great shots from the Opera House! I esp like the one of the door to Box 5 (with the Phantom plaque on it). Very Happy
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Re: Le Palais Garnier

Post  Phantom's angel on Fri Oct 26, 2012 7:09 pm

I was reading through this thread and was hoping to get more details from those who have traveled to Garnier.

I'll be taking a trip to Paris for three weeks in January and have the chance to write about a place in Paris of my choice which inspires me. I've clearly already made my decision to write about the Opera. I was hoping to get some ideas and tips of where to go, what to focus on, and if there are any ways of gaining access to the parts that may be off limits to the general public.

My French is very limited and I am even having to catch up on the little I remember in the mean-time. I'm also trying to teach myself anything else I can think of to not be a bother while I'm there (especially the currency!)

I have many other ideas and plans for this trip. I will be attending classes as well as tours of other monuments and museums, and also have plans for a weekend in London (to see Phantom, of course), but I would love a crash course so that I am not wandering aimlessly!
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Re: Le Palais Garnier

Post  NightRachel on Fri Oct 26, 2012 8:32 pm

Hi Phantom's angel!

Well, I can tell you, when I visited the Palais Garnier (in July 2002), I took a group guided tour there (with an English-speaking tour guide) and it was great! Our tour guide was even nice enough to answer any Phantom-related questions we had. Smile
After the tour, there was time allowed for us to wander around the Opera House on our own, so that was nice too. I couldn't get into Box Five though b/c the door was locked. And of course we weren't allowed to go up to the roof or down into the cellars. Neutral
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Re: Le Palais Garnier

Post  Phantom's angel on Tue Oct 30, 2012 4:44 pm

Thank you, NightRachel,

Is a tour expensive? and are you able to wander around without a tour? If you can wander without a tour, do you have to pay to get into the building? I'd like to spend as much time as possible, seeing as I will be writing about the building. I may be making multiple visits if necessary too.
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Re: Le Palais Garnier

Post  NightRachel on Wed Oct 31, 2012 6:15 pm

Phantom's angel wrote:Thank you, NightRachel,

Is a tour expensive? and are you able to wander around without a tour? If you can wander without a tour, do you have to pay to get into the building? I'd like to spend as much time as possible, seeing as I will be writing about the building. I may be making multiple visits if necessary too.

Well, since it was back in 2002 when I was last there, I can't really say what prices are now there, what they charge...but from what I remember the tour was not expensive. And I think you can wander around there without taking a tour (but I'd recommend the tour because it's interesting). I don't think you have to pay just to get into the Opera House though. Oh yes, do make multiple visits there if you can (wish I could've done that, but I didn't have the time)! Smile
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Re: Le Palais Garnier

Post  Raphael on Fri Nov 09, 2012 5:21 pm

When I first visited Paris in '93, I just wandered around the public-accessible areas of the opera house. If I ever have a chance to go back, I'd definitely take a guided tour.

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Re: Le Palais Garnier

Post  Alyssa on Tue Nov 05, 2013 4:43 pm

Hello lovlies!

I was wondering if anyone could perhaps satisfy both the phangirl in me, as well as the apple fangirl in me. On rue Halévy, there is an Apple Store. According to google maps, its across the street from the Palais Garnier. Looking at the street view, Palais Garnier is RIGHT. ACROSS. THE. STREET.

But the view appears to be obstructed by a beige gate of some sort? I was wondering if anyone could inform me what this is obstruction is as well as if it is just temporary (It appears to be covering some of the street lights. So I'm wondering if it is for some construction of some sort.)

Kind Regards!
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Re: Le Palais Garnier

Post  Scorp on Thu Mar 27, 2014 7:31 pm

You can now explore the Opéra virtually, including the rooftop and the underground lake! Link. Very Happy

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Re: Le Palais Garnier

Post  NightRachel on Fri Mar 28, 2014 1:52 pm

Scorp wrote:You can now explore the Opéra virtually, including the rooftop and the underground lake! Link. Very Happy

Awesome!
Thanks for sharing this link, Scorp!
Definitely going to check it out.  Smile 
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Re: Le Palais Garnier

Post  MarySkater on Sun Jan 08, 2017 9:39 pm

On my recent visit to Paris, I (naturally!) went to a performance at the Paris Opera House. (A ballet triple bill choreographed by Ballanchine.)  I wasn't able to book "The Phantom's Box", box 5 on the grand tier, but I did get a seat in box 7, next to it.  The even numbers are all on one side of the auditorium, the odd numbers on the other.  I got talking to an American lady who was in Box 5, and since I was interested in the Phantom connection, she invited me to come round during the interval and have a photo taken.



I was actually sitting on the shelf at the front of box 5.  As you can see, you have a very restricted view of the stage from there.

Thinking about the structure of the boxes, I want to refer to this image of a cutaway scale model of the Opera House:



Here, we are looking across at the even-numbered boxes, but the building is symmetrical.  Enlarging the view of boxes 2,4,6,8 etc gives us this, with box 6 being the "opposite number" of the Phantom's box.



Boxes 2 and 4 on this side match boxes 1 and 3 on the Phantom's side.  These are the only ones with the sides completely filled in.  From 5 and 6 onward, they are separated by partitions which curve down to about shoulder height at the front.  It's very easy to look over, and see who is there, at least at the front of the box.  I don't know if the partitions were like this when the Opera House was first built.  But if they originally went all the way up, the stage view would have been even more restricted.  I was sitting in box 7, looking to my left to see the stage.  I couldn't see much more than half of it, and a good part of the view I did get was over that dipped part of the partition, looking past the heads of the people in box 5.  I could have improved my view slightly by leaning well out over the front shelf of the box, but I didn't want to do this, because I had someone sitting on my right, and I would have been blocking his view had I done so.

I think it's fair to say that the boxes were really designed for people who wanted to be seen by the rest of the audience, rather than to see the stage.  But this does raise the question of how much privacy Erik would have had in his "private" box.  The boxes (at least, those two side boxes which I was in) are rather long and narrow.  As you go in the box door, you're in a kind of anteroom, with coat hooks and a wall mirror.  Moving forward, you go up two or three steps, and then you are at the level of the rear pair of seats.  From there, you go down steps to the middle and front seats, 6 seats to a box.  In a front seat, you are visible from the auditorium, and even more visible to anyone in the boxes opposite.  So if Erik sat at the front, he'd have to be wearing a mask that made him look normal, at least at a distance.  (Leroux describes a mysterious figure who appeared at the dinner for the retiring managers, and suggests that the Phantom might have worn a false nose for the occasion.)

Had he sat further back in the box, he'd be much less visible, especially with the house lights down.  But he'd see little or nothing of the stage.  Maybe he just wanted to hear the music.  In the ALW version, the Phantom commented disparagingly on the dancers, so that Phantom could see the stage, but I can't remember if there was any similar comment in Leroux.

But maybe it's all down to "Phantom magic" that let him see the performances without being seen.  After all, a great deal of Erik's charm is that we can't explain everything about him. Smile

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Re: Le Palais Garnier

Post  Jennie on Tue Jan 10, 2017 6:09 pm

Am so envious of you Mary, what fun! Thank you for posting photos and sharing your reflections about Erik and his box 5. I see your point about the restricted view, but the box feels very "lush", what with the red velvet... did you do any column-tapping to see whether it was hollow? Wink

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Re: Le Palais Garnier

Post  NightRachel on Wed Jan 11, 2017 12:17 am

Yes, thank you Mary for sharing your Opera House experience! Smile

In the summer of 2002 I got to visit the Paris Opera House, but I was not fortunate enough to be able to attend a performance there, let alone get a chance to be inside Box Five. How very lucky you are -- I'm a bit envious! Smile
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Re: Le Palais Garnier

Post  Jennie on Thu Jan 12, 2017 7:56 pm

Mary, or anyone else, what would you call the section at the front of the box, the top of the "wall" that has a little shelf just beneath the edge. Is it a handrest, "front wall" or what would you call it? In French it's called "appuie-mains" literally something you rest your hands on... if I've understood correctly.

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Re: Le Palais Garnier

Post  MarySkater on Thu Jan 12, 2017 10:20 pm

NightRachel wrote: In the summer of 2002 I got to visit the Paris Opera House, but I was not fortunate enough to be able to attend a performance there, let alone get a chance to be inside Box Five. How very lucky you are -- I'm a bit envious! Smile

My first piece of luck is that, living in Britain, Paris isn't far for me to go.  All the same, I'm not a great traveller, I don't speak much French, and it took a while to psyche myself up to make the trip.  The intention, of course, was to see Phantom performed in Paris.  By the time the show was cancelled, my hotel and flights were booked (and non-refundable).  I only spent three nights in Paris, Wednesday to Friday, with Thursday and Friday supposed to be my Phantom visits.  Wednesday I earmarked for the Palais Garnier.  I'll watch opera or ballet, but on the whole prefer ballet, so it worked in my favour that it was ballet the night I went.

Thursday morning, I went for the guided tour of the Opera House.  However that day (and for the rest of the week) the auditorium was closed to visitors, so it was just as well I'd been there the evening before.  It was still worth going for the tour of the public areas.

Jennie wrote: but the box feels very "lush", what with the red velvet... did you do any column-tapping to see whether it was hollow? Wink

I didn't tap the column, since I was only a "visitor" in the box.  If I'd actually booked it, maybe I would have.  Or maybe not – in case anyone tapped back!  Oh yes, very lush with the red velvet.  According to my souvenir book, Garnier chose red because "the rosy reflections on women's faces and shoulders make them look younger and more radiant."

Also according to the book, and explaining the anteroom which I mentioned above, but didn't photograph, "Rented by the year, a box was like the corner of the family sitting room, from one side of which a performance could be watched if it was deemed worthy of interest. Otherwise one came and went, visited, chatted, ate and drank."

Most of the boxes are narrow, seating six, but between the columns at the back of the auditorium are a few double-width boxes.  This is the interior of one of these on the premier circle – sorry the photo isn't great, but I scanned it from my book:



And the exterior of the box above:


Jennie wrote: what would you call the section at the front of the box, the top of the "wall" that has a little shelf just beneath the edge.
I'd call the edge a rail, and the flat bit below a shelf.  If there are any proper names for them in English, I don't know.  In Leroux, the DeMattos translation calls it a shelf, and Ribiere calls it a ledge.

Auditorium from the stage.  Not my photo, found on the internet.


The whole place is incredibly sumptuous.  It was designed to glorify Emperor Napoleon III.  It was his bad luck that he was deposed before it was finished.  With multi-coloured marble floors, mosaic ceilings, onyx balustrades, I sometimes found that the set-piece sculptures and paintings were almost drowned by their surroundings.  I don't know that I'd want to live in the middle of such opulence, but I'm very glad to have seen it.  I don't think anything like it will ever be built again.

Mary
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MarySkater

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Re: Le Palais Garnier

Post  NightRachel on Fri Jan 13, 2017 12:45 am

Mary, I too got to do the guided tour (in English) of the Opera House when I was there, and it was well worth it! We had a very nice lady tour guide who was understanding of any Phantom-related questions that were asked by some of our group members (including me). Very Happy
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Re: Le Palais Garnier

Post  MarySkater on Fri Jan 13, 2017 8:32 pm

NightRachel wrote:Mary, I too got to do the guided tour (in English) of the Opera House when I was there, and it was well worth it! We had a very nice lady tour guide who was understanding of any Phantom-related questions that were asked by some of our group members (including me). Very Happy

I was with the English-language tour, about 15 or 20 people including Britons, Americans and Australians. The guide stopped a few doors along from the entrance to Box 5, and asked the group if anyone had heard the story of the Phantom of the Opera. More than half the group nodded - some were already looking at the brass plate on the door of Box 5. The guide said that this was the usual reaction of any English-speaking group, but if she put the same question to a French group, she mostly got blank looks. Leroux is not highly regarded in France, and even the various versions of the Phantom story since his time have not popularised it. However, she gave a quick and correct précis of the story, and went on to explain that the water in the cellar is not a lake or a river, it's best described as a tank. She said that the local fire & rescue service use it (or used to use it) for practising underwater techniques.

There's a discussion of the difference between the "real" lake and Leroux's version here:
http://desertedphans.forumotion.net/t568-leroux-s-fantasy-lake

The Garnier ought to offer "special" tours allowing small groups of people to be taken round the water tank in small boats - I'm sure they could make a lot of money out of that! Smile
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Re: Le Palais Garnier

Post  Paula74 on Wed Jun 07, 2017 8:25 pm

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Re: Le Palais Garnier

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